Irish Taxi Forum
Public Area => Taxi Talk => Topic started by: Rat Catcher on June 17, 2022, 09:44:22 pm
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Thanks to the 'erm.
Email From NTA:
Good afternoon,
Today, following public consultations which concluded on 27 May, the NTA Board met to consider the proposed National Maximum Taxi Fare increase and Small Public Service Vehicle (Cashless Payment Facility) Regulations.
The Board approved both the proposed increase of the National Maximum Taxi Fare and the Small Public Service Vehicle (Cashless Payment Facility) Regulations. The 2022 Maximum Fare increase is a weighted average of 12% to reflect the increase in operating costs faced by taxi drivers, together with the introduction of the cashless payment facility mandate. The cashless payment facility regulations will make it mandatory for all taxis to have an in-taxi point of sale cashless payment device and for cashless payments to be accepted for taxi journeys when requested by customers.
Both will be introduced in parallel and will take effect from 1 September 2022.
Guidelines for the Acceptance of Cashless Payments in Taxis will be published on the Forms & Guides section of NTA’s website in due course.
Yours sincerely,
National Transport Authority
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I was in the Doctor's office last week... cash only.
Does the Cowens' bar take card payments yet?
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Ah Steve your hubris knows no bounds .Lounging in your Jocks and socks and Marks and Spencer black slippon shoes on your Sunlounger in the back yard of your palatial Manor House by the sea .You will place a wager on a steed in the 3.30 at Utoxeter and accept your winnings by electronic exchange with no fear of not getting paid .You during your Dr Manlove phase accepted your Three and a half in Covid Ransom by electronic transfer .Given the option of lugging your finely fed torso down to Boylesports to have three cross doubles and a treble on a paper docket scribbled in pencil and paid on in cash or gently stroking the buttons on your Apple B52 to place a wager I think the Clever Phone would win out .
I shall be communicating this week with the relevant authority on the wording of the In car credit facilities and suggesting that Drivers MUST PROVIDE facilities as opposed to Drivers MUST ACCEPT .The difference between Provision and acceptance leaves us room to request cash if the internet is not working If we must Provide then we have a get out, we provided but if we must accept then we may not have a legal option to demand cash payment if there are technical problems beyond our control .
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Could they not have just offered an incentive to have credit card facilities available?
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Could they not have just offered an incentive to have credit card facilities available?
There is a huge incentive .WE get back our customers from the apps .I speak to EVERY SINGLE CUSTOMER THAT GETS IN MY CAR none of them know we pay 15% commission most customers think its FREE to use .I was talking to a girl one night asked her How much money she got paid .She told me to mind my own business .I said make up a figure so she said 2600 a month .I asked are you paid in 50 or 20 Euro notes ? She said no it gets paid into the bank .So I said You have never actually recieved CASH for your work instead you get Tradeable Tokens .Your boss puts 2600 worth of these tokens into your bank you give me some of them in the app for your fare I give them to the Garage for Fuel .If you actually want REAL CASH MONEY you need to put a card in a cash machine and take out cash from your account and pay your bank for giving you your own money .1990 in Dublin most customers late night use the app because they do not have coin on their hip they are desensitized from cash they never earned cash .The incentive if you want one is When passengers realize they can pay by card that will put HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of fares back into circulation from app providers .The incentive is we take back our work from the apps .I have my Suitability renewal this week then I will be going to Core Signs to see Davie and get some door stickers to show I take All Cards .This is a great development for our industry I will be asking the NTA to carry out a Media and Press release to hilight this tremendous development .The fact we take card will not stop us taking cash it just gives OUR customers more choices .
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I'd say the pensioners are gonna have to consider leaving the industry as they'll be hounded by people wanting to pay by cards on the ranks.
This will just result in less cash overall.We might get a tiny bit back from the apps but our passengers have gotten used to us driving to them.They're completely spoiled.
Now we're gonna be paying 2% on our steetwork and no PUC..hard to see any positives.
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I'd say the pensioners are gonna have to consider leaving the industry as they'll be hounded by people wanting to pay by cards on the ranks.
This will just result in less cash overall.We might get a tiny bit back from the apps but our passengers have gotten used to us driving to them.They're completely spoiled.
Now we're gonna be paying 2% on our steetwork and no PUC..hard to see any positives.
Streetwork will return especially for night time drivers .If you read the 12% increase they added on a bit to cover CC charges .I can see Doris and Doreen wanting to be picked up from the House when they are going out but not wanting to stand around on Harcourt Street @4Am watching Donal taking a piss while waiting on Mohamed or Seamus to find them in his taxi as they watch yellow lights drive by looking for fares .The PUC is for service rendered its not free money it costs you to go find them and wait .
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Could they not have just offered an incentive to have credit card facilities available?
There is a huge incentive .WE get back our customers from the apps .I speak to EVERY SINGLE CUSTOMER THAT GETS IN MY CAR none of them know we pay 15% commission most customers think its FREE to use .I was talking to a girl one night asked her How much money she got paid .She told me to mind my own business .I said make up a figure so she said 2600 a month .I asked are you paid in 50 or 20 Euro notes ? She said no it gets paid into the bank .So I said You have never actually recieved CASH for your work instead you get Tradeable Tokens .Your boss puts 2600 worth of these tokens into your bank you give me some of them in the app for your fare I give them to the Garage for Fuel .If you actually want REAL CASH MONEY you need to put a card in a cash machine and take out cash from your account and pay your bank for giving you your own money .1990 in Dublin most customers late night use the app because they do not have coin on their hip they are desensitized from cash they never earned cash .The incentive if you want one is When passengers realize they can pay by card that will put HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of fares back into circulation from app providers .The incentive is we take back our work from the apps .I have my Suitability renewal this week then I will be going to Core Signs to see Davie and get some door stickers to show I take All Cards .This is a great development for our industry I will be asking the NTA to carry out a Media and Press release to hilight this tremendous development .The fact we take card will not stop us taking cash it just gives OUR customers more choices .
Where I work the apps don't even work. so it wont help me in the slightest. People tip less while paying by card. People who drink a lot often haven't a penny on their cards either.
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I'm sure FN have planned to put their hands deeper into our 12% like they preempted the last increase that didn't happen!!
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I'm sure FN have planned to put their hands deeper into our 12% like they preempted the last increase that didn't happen!!
With Bolt and Uber snappin at their heels it would be a stupendously tick thing to do.
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It'd take a braver man than me to stop for the kinda riff-raf that hails off the street in a lot of the areas I work. To be fair, dispatch firms' offering eHiling facilities has resulted in making our services available to many clients who we simply wouldn't stop for on the street. Similarly, there is a much higher concentration of riff-raff among those who continue to street hail. In many cases there's a reason they want to avoid all potential technological tracking and such like.
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Proof that God has a sense of humour... Sumup isn't working for me this morning and I've messed up my FN app. >:D
My phone got a software update this morning so that might account for sumup. Can anyone confirm sumup is working for them this Sunday morning?
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Proof that God has a sense of humour... Sumup isn't working for me this morning and I've messed up my FN app. >:D
My phone got a software update this morning so that might account for sumup. Can anyone confirm sumup is working for them this Sunday morning?
Watty Get a Stripe card reader they are about 16 euro .it plugs into the charging port on the phone and you just swipe the magnetic strip .You can also get square just have a back up to Sum Up or Revolute .
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Silly spending money on stuff like that before NTA publishes the technical documentation specifying requirements for compulsory card payment facilities due for implementation in September, IMO. They may well specify integration with the taximeter, offline (delayed) processing capacity, NSAI verified/sealed units or whatever else TfL might have already thought of.... none of which will come cheap!
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Thanks Erm!
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@ JohnM - thanks. Will look into them.
Re sumup: turns out I had to reset the Bluetooth on the card terminal. Don't know how I turned it off in the first place. Turn card terminal off, long press power button for approx 15 sec until you see 'BT on'. Then pair phone and card terminal and hopefully everything's working again.
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Hopefully won't be an issue with whatever new hardware NTA may specify to comply with regulations requiring mandatory acceptance of card payments due for implementation in September.
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Hopefully won't be an issue with whatever new hardware NTA may specify to comply with regulations requiring mandatory acceptance of card payments due for implementation in September.
Your passing the winning post there Rodent before the race is off .We do not know the Wording of the new legislation .It may only require us to have facilities on board .Just because you have a TV Licence dosent mean you have to watch .We carry first aid kits and Fire Extinguishers but are not legislated to use same .
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Either way it'd be a shame to spend money on equipment that might not comply with the new regulations. NTA has yet to publish the relevant technical documemts so we've no idea what they'll make us buy, if anything.
Furthermore, I respectfully suggest you re-read the relevant (draft) SI signed by Fred on June 17, erm.
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Small-Public-Service-Vehicle-Cashless-Payment-Facility-Regulations-2022_Signed.pdf (https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Small-Public-Service-Vehicle-Cashless-Payment-Facility-Regulations-2022_Signed.pdf)
Cashless Payment
4. For any journey, the driver of a taxi shall:
(a) ensure they are in possession of a functioning cashless payment device; and
(b) accept cashless payment as a method of payment of any fare.
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Either way it'd be a shame to spend money on equipment that might not comply with the new regulations. NTA has yet to publish the relevant technical documemts so we've no idea what they'll make us buy, if anything.
Furthermore, I respectfully suggest you re-read the relevant (draft) SI signed by Fred on June 17, erm.
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Small-Public-Service-Vehicle-Cashless-Payment-Facility-Regulations-2022_Signed.pdf (https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Small-Public-Service-Vehicle-Cashless-Payment-Facility-Regulations-2022_Signed.pdf)
Cashless Payment
4. For any journey, the driver of a taxi shall:
(a) ensure they are in possession of a functioning cashless payment device; and
(b) accept cashless payment as a method of payment of any fare.
Great I will accept the payment to fulfill my part of the contract if the internet is down you fail in your part of the contract to initiate the payment .Whats the problem ?
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The SI places no onus on the client. Again I respectfully suggest you re-read the same.
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The SI places no onus on the client. Again I respectfully suggest you re-read the same.
If the Client cannot initiate the payment then I would like you to explain the legal definition of Accept .
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Furthermore, erm... I'm somewhat intrigued as to why you are assuming whatever devices are approved by NTA will depend on Internet. Aer Lingus can take card payments way up above the clouds with no internet access.
Why didn't you think of Leap cards when you were lobbying for cashless payments. An excellent idea put forward on another thread by our own Watty. Shame your gob was a dozen paces ahead of your brain...
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The SI places no onus on the client. Again I respectfully suggest you re-read the same.
If the Client cannot initiate the payment then I would like you to explain the legal definition of Accept .
You obviously jumped in without reading the SI. Stop embarrasing yourself and take time out to read it.
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The SI places no onus on the client. Again I respectfully suggest you re-read the same.
If the Client cannot initiate the payment then I would like you to explain the legal definition of Accept .
You obviously jumped in without reading the SI. Stop embarrasing yourself.
Strange definition of Accept or are you going to tell us the Legal definition of Accept .How can you accept that which has not been uttered ?Melord .
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You are after fueling up on Porter and hitting a double 1 in the darts in the pub to win your game against blind Joe and to celebrate on the way home you go into mr Woos for 36 Chicken Balls two singles a can of coke and a Curry Chips and Rice for the Princess .You use your card to try and pay and it dosent work .Will Mr Woo have to feed you or will the Princess be on bread and Jam with her mug of hot Tea .Are you entitled to take the nosh if the card dont work .
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Once the card (or phone or watch, etc) is produced it is uttered and the driver must accept it under threat of a €200 FPN.
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You are after fueling up on Porter and hitting a double 1 in the darts in the pub to win your game against blind Joe and to celebrate on the way home you go into mr Woos for 36 Chicken Balls two singles a can of coke and a Curry Chips and Rice for the Princess .You use your card to try and pay and it dosent work .Will Mr Woo have to feed you or will the Princess be on bread and Jam with her mug of hot Tea .Are you entitled to take the nosh if the card dont work .
No cash no food... Mr. Wu is not obliged to accept any form of payment other than legal tender. From September, taxi drivers will be the only businesses in the Free State not entitled to insist on legal tender... thanks to your lobbying. Again, why didn't you think of Leap cards? Next time you have a brainwave do us all a favour and run it by Watty first.
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I never mentioned Leap cards as a taxi payment solution.
I think it is just another cheeky ploy by the NTA. Offering the carrot of 12% increase ,finally and then changing the statutary law on accectable payment for Taxi fares…The NTA,just walk all over Taximen. Hey! faceless NTA. Try doing that to Dublin Bus ::fuck ::fuck ::fuck
Leap card?
Fucking right Coola your Fucking Right the Fuckers are fucking fucking with Fucking Taxidrivers they always fucking Fuck with us the Fuckers ..How long have you been accepting fucking card payments from Fucking Hailo or My Taxi or Fucking Free Now .
Anyways, with the Leap card, you pay upfront when you get on the bus. So the machine checks that you have enough money before you get on the bus. You pay at the end of the journey in a taxi and it's very difficult to predict the final price. So hard to check if the Leap card has enough funds on it until it's potentially too late.
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Some lads just need enough rope to hang themselves .They really should look before they Leap .
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Furthermore, erm... I'm somewhat intrigued as to why you are assuming whatever devices are approved by NTA will depend on Internet. Aer Lingus can take card payments way up above the clouds with no internet access.
Why didn't you think of Leap cards when you were lobbying for cashless payments. An excellent idea put forward on another thread by our own Watty. Shame your gob was a dozen paces ahead of your brain...
At present, credit cards are swiped via wireless handhelds on aircraft but the transactions are processed when the aircraft gets on the ground. Because of this billing mechanism – which sometimes results in fraudulent transactions – there is a ceiling of the value of items that can be comfortably sold today.
The article goes on to mention that some companies were then beginning to offer real time in-flight card authorizations, but I do recall seeing a maximum purchase limitation on a recent transatlantic flight.
I don't think there is as much fraud risk as there might have been at one time. Think about the identification requirements to board a flight, especially the longhaul flights which sell duty free merchandise.
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As you suggest, the airlines have some comeback. In fact, you may recall at least one lady telling Joe Duffy how Ryanair wouldn't let her board a flight until she reimbursed them for a chargeback she initiated on foot of a flight cancelled on account of COVID '19 anall with Ryanair trying to fob her off with vouchers and/or an extremely long wait for a refund.
It works pretty much the same way for the dispatch firms in our trade. Prior to the introduction of the Strong Customer Authentication (SCA) regime Free Now's policy was simply to not allow further use of a card with a balance owing due to being previously declined. In this post-SCA era the firm places a hold on it's estimate of the fare with any required cardholder approval ascertained in advance.
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I never mentioned Leap cards as a taxi payment solution.
Leap card?
Anyways, with the Leap card, you pay upfront when you get on the bus. So the machine checks that you have enough money before you get on the bus. You pay at the end of the journey in a taxi and it's very difficult to predict the final price. So hard to check if the Leap card has enough funds on it until it's potentially too late.
While I appreciate your modesty, you make a strong case for utililising the Leap system to facilitate cashless payments in taxis. Obviously, all cards whether prepaid, debit or credit require sufficient funds. Whether such funds are available or not can be ascertained in advance if required regardless of the card type but (as you allude to) is considerably easier to do with Leap than might the case for initiating holds on funds for bank cards.
Whether you intended to make the point or not ought not detract from the value of your contribution and, indeed, underlines the benefit often obtainable through inclusive discussion. As I'm sure was to the fore of your thought process, the use of Leap cards would eliminate the possibility of chargebacks whether through fraudulent use or otherwise as Leap's T&Cs clearly exclude any such protection. Linking of Leap cards to bank cards (at some juncture) could be looked at to further ease the topup process for users but (as you previously stressed) the onus for topping up would remain with the client and the system operated by the driver would replicate that in place at train stations, Luas stops, etc i.e. it would not be dependent on external real time processing.
In essence, Leap would provide a 100% available cashless payment method for clients and afford the driver levels of protection hitherto only available to the big dispatch firms. It's just a shame you didn't suggest it before the erm waded in with his size 16s.