Irish Taxi Forum
Public Area => Taxi Talk => Topic started by: Rat Catcher on February 01, 2023, 02:35:43 pm
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I was chatting with a Muslim chap last evening about the homeless crisis and rent increases and such like. Anywaysanall, he shared his personal experience/approach with me which is broadly as follows. He has a good job and pays a small fortune in rent. His religious beliefs dictate that he can't directly pay a mortgage. He now has two Children and is in the process of repeating what we call his Child One scheme for Child Two.
The Child One scheme is simple enough - at least in basic terms. He has indirectly guaranteed a mortgage on a house which he doesn't inhabit and (in the current climate at least) is rented for a sum exceeding the mortgage repayment. He donates the excess to charity which he suggests satifies further obligations imposed through his religious beliefs. The perceived result is that Child One will own the house at the age of 22 and may inhabit the same should he so wish.
Ignoring any "Irish" interpretation he may have applied to religious doctrines or whatever... in fact, ignoring the whole religious bit altogether... could such a scheme be promoted by Govt for parents who want to enter into such arrangements and, if so, what would/should such promotion entail... pooled/shared schemes, matched contributions, tax breaks, rent guarantess, subsidised interest rates, anything else?
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I was chatting with a Muslim chap last evening about the homeless crisis and rent increases and such like. Anywaysanall, he shared his personal experience/approach with me which is broadly as follows. He has a good job and pays a small fortune in rent. His religious beliefs dictate that he can't directly pay a mortgage. He now has two Children and is in the process of repeating what we call his Child One scheme for Child Two.
The Child One scheme is simple enough - at least in basic terms. He has indirectly guaranteed a mortgage on a house which he doesn't inhabit and (in the current climate at least) is rented for a sum exceeding the mortgage repayment. He donates the excess to charity which he suggests satifies further obligations imposed through his religious beliefs. The perceived result is that Child One will own the house at the age of 22 and may inhabit the same should he so wish.
Ignoring any "Irish" interpretation he may have applied to religious doctrines or whatever... in fact, ignoring the whole religious bit altogether... could such a scheme be promoted by Govt for parents who want to enter into such arrangements and, if so, what would/should such promotion entail... pooled/shared schemes, tax breaks, rent guarantess, subsidised interest rates, anything else?
Muslims don't believe in usury - which is considered Haram, or forbidden. Which is the backbone of western society.
Muslims cleverly use the system of Hawala banking which has been around since before we left the trees and began to walk upright.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/what-is-hawala-5197853 (https://www.thebalancemoney.com/what-is-hawala-5197853)
It has become very popular with certain sectors of the Irish population supplying recreational substances to our young, and income for older generations.
Once the toast of Cork:https://watchers.ie/2022/09/15/the-background-story-of-slimline-johnny-the-johnny-cash-of-cork-and-the-wife-well-all-has-changed-johnny-will-enjoy-his-spanish-omelettes-now/
'One of Europe's biggest money launderers' in court in Spain
Published
15 September 2022
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NCA/garda officers
IMAGE SOURCE,GUARDIA CIVIL
Image caption,
Europol released Guardia Civil photos of the arrest
An Irishman accused of being "one of Europe's biggest money launderers" and a member of the Kinahan crime cartel has been remanded in custody in Spain.
The suspect is understood to be Johnny Morrissey, a 62-year-old Irish passport holder, who was arrested in Malaga on Monday.
He was in court in Spain on Wednesday in relation to money laundering.
But the hearing was held in private as is usual for Spanish pre-trial cases, according to Irish broadcaster RTÉ.
It reported that six international law enforcement agencies were involved in the investigation that led to Mr Morrissey's arrest this week.
Those included Spain's Guardia Civil, the United States Drug Enforcement Administration (US DEA) and An Garda Síochána (the Irish police force).
The Kinahan crime cartel was originally based in the Republic of Ireland, where some members were involved in a high-profile feud with a rival crime gang which has claimed several lives since 2015.
Kinahan cartel suspects operate in several countries and some alleged members have recently been hit with international financial sanctions from law enforcement agencies in the US, the UK and Ireland.
'Laundered €200m'
Europol - the European Union's police agency - released a statement after the arrest operation on Monday.
It did not name any suspect but it hailed the arrest of a man it described as "one of Europe's biggest money launderers".
"Linked to the Kinahan clan, the suspect is believed to have laundered €200m (£173m) in just over one year," said Europol.
Selling vodka
Europol claimed that an 18-month international investigation had led to the discovery that €200m had been laundered through the Hawala underground banking system, which it described as "an informal method of transferring money without any physical money actually moving".
It revealed that some suspects had laundered money by creating a brand of vodka that was being sold in nightclubs and restaurants in Spain's Costa del Sol "to disguise the source of their earnings".
Europol also said that companies had been founded in the UK and Gibraltar to help launder illegal profits.
Two other suspects - a man and a woman - were also in court in Spain on Wednesday.
The man was also remanded in custody while the woman was released on bail.
The UK's National Crime Agency (NCA) said it had searched addresses in Greater Manchester and Glasgow as part of the investigation.
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Interesting and all as that is... I deliberately wrote "Ignoring any "Irish" interpretation he may have applied to religious doctrines or whatever... in fact, ignoring the whole religious bit altogether" in an effort to concentrate minds on the substance of the concept rather than Muslim bashing,
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Interesting and all as that is... I deliberately wrote "Ignoring any "Irish" interpretation he may have applied to religious doctrines or whatever... in fact, ignoring the whole religious bit altogether" in an effort to concentrate minds on the substance of the concept rather than Muslim bashing,
I think,(being Irish by accident of birth) Islamic banking is a very fair way to do business. Sure, didn't your own Jeebas attack moneylenders? : 12And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. 8)
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Again, interesting and all as that is, I'm nore interested in contributors' thoughts on the substance of the scheme and how it could be tailored into an attractive proposition for today's parents....
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Again, interesting and all as that is, I'm nore interested in contributors' thoughts on the substance of the scheme and how it could be tailored into an attractive proposition for today's parents....
Aah, The Bank of NOT Mum & Dad.
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Bank of Mummy and Daddy with some State subsidy thrown in, I was thinking. At the very least the State need gaffs for low/no earners so could readily guarantee rents... replacing vulture fund landlords with social enterprise housing associations or some such, if you will.... not to mention promoting parental responsibility which I woulda thought would be right up your street!
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Bank of Mummy and Daddy with some State subsidy thrown in, I was thinking. At the very least the State need gaffs for low/no earners so could readily guarantee rents... replacing vulture fund landlords with social enterprise housing associations or some such, if you will.
For sheer vote garnering that would be something high on the Shinners agenda, from my POV, that would be an ecumenical matter! 8)
HOVELS FOR HAP
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Maybe I should forward it to Deputy O'Brin?
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I was chatting with a Muslim chap last evening about the homeless crisis and rent increases and such like. Anywaysanall, he shared his personal experience/approach with me which is broadly as follows. He has a good job and pays a small fortune in rent. His religious beliefs dictate that he can't directly pay a mortgage. He now has two Children and is in the process of repeating what we call his Child One scheme for Child Two.
The Child One scheme is simple enough - at least in basic terms. He has indirectly guaranteed a mortgage on a house which he doesn't inhabit and (in the current climate at least) is rented for a sum exceeding the mortgage repayment. He donates the excess to charity which he suggests satifies further obligations imposed through his religious beliefs. The perceived result is that Child One will own the house at the age of 22 and may inhabit the same should he so wish.
Ignoring any "Irish" interpretation he may have applied to religious doctrines or whatever... in fact, ignoring the whole religious bit altogether... could such a scheme be promoted by Govt for parents who want to enter into such arrangements and, if so, what would/should such promotion entail... pooled/shared schemes, matched contributions, tax breaks, rent guarantess, subsidised interest rates, anything else?
Cud you write like a taxi driver for starters an not like a legal accountant for the high court so us plebs know wat yur on about ?
All I made out of that was ...the Muslim was buying a gaff for his first son but not for his second who'll end up homeless wen he's 22 cause his da,s religion forces him to do so ......not very Christian is it ?
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Maybe I should forward it to Deputy O'Brin?
Tiocfaidh ár Langer! 8)
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I know what you're saying and all, Octy... and you're bang on, it's not very Christian but he's actually buying gaffs for both of his Children and it's not costing him a penny so, strictly speaking, it probably isn't very Muslim either.
Anywaysanall, what I'm saying is why can't our poxy Government let Irish people do the same thing for Irish Children?
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I know what you're saying and all, Octy... and you're bang on, it's not very Christian but he's actually buying gaffs for both of his Children and it's not costing him a penny so, strictly speaking, it probably isn't very Muslim either.
Anywaysanall, what I'm saying is why can't our poxy Government let Irish people do the same thing for Irish Children?
OK...tink I get ya ....he's renting a gaff for him an the 3 wives an the 2 kids ....an he's buyin 2 gaffs for the kids who are still in nappies but will both get a gaff each wen ther 22 ....tink I got that bit .....
So he's sayin he has to buy 2 gaffs for the toddlers cause god told him to .....
In the west we call that ....money laundering...dodgy as fuk ide say O:-) C:-)
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I know what you're saying and all and you're bang on. What I'm saying is why are them foreigners allowed buy loads of gaffs without any money yet there's no houses for Irish people if you know what I'm saying and all...
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How does one guarantee a mortgage "indirectly" for a house which presumeably is owned by yourself, and or, your child into which you are putting tenants to receive rent? In who's name is the mortgage? Daddy's income is partly taken as the qualifying income to guarantee the loan.
You must have a scheme in mind as to a possible government involvement in such a scheme. Is it a totally new concept? Please enlighten me in simple terms that both myself and Octy can understand.
My understaning of the way in which most muslims take loans is simply in the wording of the arrangement in that the lending agency "take a share in a joint venture with the eventual owner of the property". Muslims all over the world borrow money to buy property.
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I guess indirectly could be through a corporate entity. However, again we're getting hung up on the Muslim rather than the potential such a scheme could present in the form of social enterprise.
I'm trying to keep it simple but what if Govt let parents invest in housing associations that took the place of corporate build to let schemes?
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I guess indirectly could be through a corporate entity. However, again we're getting hung up on the Muslim rather than the potential such a scheme could present in the form of social enterprise.
I'm trying to keep it simple but what if Govt let parents invest in housing associations that took the place of corporate build to let schemes?
Your just describing a " landlord" ...despite highest rents ever ...apparently small landlords are sellin in ther droves on account of restrictions bein put on ther control of ther assets an 52 % tax on the income ...thers actually a moratorium in place at the moment that tenants don't have to pay ya if they have an excuse ....but the vulture funds can weather such storms for the long term wit unlimited amounts of money stashed in the bank of America
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Someone posted a salutory story on this site a long time ago. A taxi driver put money into the credit union for his kid for years and years. When the kid turned 18, the father gave him the money thinking it would pay his college fees etc. Instead, the kid ran out and bought himself a little boy racer car. The father was furious but, as his mates pointed out, he gave the gift and he had no control over what the child would spend the money.
If you saved all that money for your kid and presented them with a house on their, say, 21st birthday. What's to stop them selling the house and travelling around the world for a few years? Or investing it in crypto!
If you could afford it, I'd say you're better off saving the deposit on a house. Don't mention the money but watch them quietly and if they're stable enough, give them the deposit on a house when they're ready to settle down?
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Your also describing an idea ratt that's only feasible for the Dublin 4 wealthy or the money launderin criminal class ....2 houses in Dublin wud nearly cost ya a million today ....yur mate obviously had enormous deposits ....or large deposits plus he's a Guarenteed large income for life
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Nothing, Watty... but said Child could hardly complain about being homeless as a consequence.
The point is really two-fold. First, the Muslim lad is acquiring two houses for nothing, assuming rent arrangements remain profitable. Second, Govt pay small fortunes in rent to house ne'er-do-wells. Surely there's some way to marry the two into a social housing scheme of some sort... or at least to facilitate relevant investment vehicles for parents who may wish to subscribe. Associations, for example, could facilitate gradual accumulation of a portion of a dwelling or such like.
As above, Octy... Associations could facilitate lower level subscription.
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If you buy a house to rent at 52 % tax on income ....how is he getting the houses for nuttin ?
If the income covers the mortgage then he must have paid a huge deposit ..at least half the purchase price wud he not ? ...an then thers upkeep an property tax etcetera ...
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Mortgage interest can be written off against rent. I guess most of the mortgage payment is interest in the early years, at least. Between management fees, fixtures and fittings, maintenance, etc there might not be a huge profit, if any... but he's not doing it for profit, it's to provide for his little Muslim brats.
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... or to keep Irish homes away from the Irish?
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There is, of course, a risk of potential loss. At some point house prices could collapse and he could be stuck with rents that don't cover the mortgages. That's, perhaps, an area some sort of Govt backed scheme could address?
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https://www.irishtimes.com/property/commercial-property/2023/02/01/cairn-homes-secures-131m-from-sale-of-greystones-apartments/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/property/commercial-property/2023/02/01/cairn-homes-secures-131m-from-sale-of-greystones-apartments/)
Happy Days for the Council List in Wicklow !
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https://www.irishtimes.com/property/commercial-property/2023/02/01/cairn-homes-secures-131m-from-sale-of-greystones-apartments/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/property/commercial-property/2023/02/01/cairn-homes-secures-131m-from-sale-of-greystones-apartments/)
Happy Days for the Council List in Wicklow !
Neo-Slum
Centralising drug dealers too.
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Interesting and all as that is... I deliberately wrote "Ignoring any "Irish" interpretation he may have applied to religious doctrines or whatever... in fact, ignoring the whole religious bit altogether" in an effort to concentrate minds on the substance of the concept rather than Muslim bashing,
So you think we should Ignore our own "Irish" interpretation of the religious doctrine which you just made a point of telling us all about ? and that the Irish state should also ignore that religious element whilst at the same time pandering to it? Some of us are Irish you know!
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No, the religious aspect is particular to the Muslim chap. As BS notes Muslim chaps have several methods of circumventing such doctrines, all of which could be described as "Irish" interpretations. In any event, unless you're a Muslim they're irrelevant.
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No, the religious aspect is particular to the Muslim chap. As BS notes Muslim chaps have several methods of circumventing such doctrines, all of which could be described as "Irish" interpretations. In any event, unless you're a Muslim they're irrelevant.
Sorry I mistakenly thought the thread was titled The Muslim Solution.
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Ratty, could you elaborate exactly how the muslim chap does it? So that folks can see how to marry the musllm and irish problem into an islamish or muslimish solution. Most of us here haven’t a clue how he has done it, especially the “ hes doing it for nothing “ part
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I remember my Dad telling of his Islamic colleagues at Lucas battery factory in Birmingham. Yes, they would all pack into a normal three-bed house, but they would all bunce into buying that house for cash.
Then onwards to the next house, and the next house, and no mortgages.
It was all done on the honour system of Hawala. The money would be sent from Punjab And Kashmir to England. The sooner the house was paid for, the sooner more relatives could come to seek a better life.
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Indeed, but there are lot's of different schemes or arrangements they use to circumvent whatever their strict religious belief is supposed to be.
I though I explained it already, Indian friend - apologies your post is a page back now and I can be arsed looking for your name. Basically the rent he collects on the gaffs he bought covers the mortgage repayments with a bit to spare. All very well until house prices collapse again and the rents don't cover the mortgage repayments but he's a high earner so better placed than most to run the risk.
Anywaysanall, what I was thinking is why don't Govt encourage ordinary folk on average wages to invest in housing associations instead of giving it all to the vulture funds. The possibilities are endless... you could have schemes where a not for profit association charges Govt the same as the vulture funds but a portion of each rent (the profit portion, if you will) could be converted to shares in the association allowing tenants accumulate what might amount to a deposit over the course of time. Similarly parents could be encouraged to invest in such associations on behalf of their Children, perhaps accruing what might equate to a significant % share of a dwelling by the time the Children reach the age of majority.
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Indeed, but there are lot's of different schemes or arrangements they use to circumvent whatever their strict religious belief is supposed to be.
I though I explained it already, Indian friend - apologies your post is a page back now and I can be arsed looking for your name. Basically the rent he collects on the gaffs he bought covers the mortgage repayments with a bit to spare. All very well until house prices collapse again and the rents don't cover the mortgage repayments but he's a high earner so better placed than most to run the risk.
Anywaysanall, what I was thinking is why don't Govt encourage ordinary folk on average wages to invest in housing associations instead of giving it all to the vulture funds. The possibilities are endless... you could have schemes where a not for profit association charges Govt the same as the vulture funds but a portion of each rent (the profit portion, if you will) could be converted to shares in the association allowing tenants accumulate what might amount to a deposit over the course of time. Similarly parents could be encouraged to invest in such associations on behalf of their Children, perhaps accruing what might equate to a significant % share of a dwelling by the time the Children reach the age of majority.
Because your living in a corrupt state that's why ...politicians get brass plate mascot positions when they retire with these foreign vulture funds ......for example a few years I put it up on Roy's the since deceased retired attorney General of Ireland got an honorary position on the board ( job title with fuk all to do ) with goldmine sachs....the most ruthless cnuts on the planet who operated out of the same office as uber on pembrook Street and who bought multiple apartment blocks off the irish Government tru the bargain basement giveaway that was called nama .....and paid €1000 total tax bill for the privilege
Wer ya not listening or wha fuk sake ? ::fds
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Who needs a solution.... This housing crisis has been going on for a long long time.A good oul recession will sort it out.... hopefully.
https://youtu.be/ezTsheEEBfg
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You're undoubtedly right, MfH... but the vulture funds will still get the HAP money.
What's that, Octy?
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Who needs a solution.... This housing crisis has been going on for a long long time.A good oul recession will sort it out.... hopefully.
https://youtu.be/ezTsheEEBfg
Interest is also a determining factor but is rarely mentioned. If you bought a house 300k including interest, you’ll want to sell it for more than that. So the next generation always pay more, other things being equal.
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You're undoubtedly right, MfH... but the vulture funds will still get the HAP money.
What's that, Octy?
Yu need to get them ears syringed or sumtin ratti ...your not listenin half the time ... ::)
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Nothin stays on topic in this ***** THREAD
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Noone comes on here to listen, Octy.