Irish Taxi Forum
Public Area => Taxi Talk => Topic started by: watty on May 27, 2024, 05:11:44 pm
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Hmm, interesting... I wonder where the PSV bit comes into it? Did the hotel provide a driver as well as the car? Or did the hotel have a taxi that they lent to hotel guests?
Court decision throws legality of hotel courtesy cars into doubt, says judge (https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/court-decision-throws-legality-of-hotel-courtesy-cars-into-doubt-says-judge-1630606.html)
The legality of the provision of courtesy cars to paying guests by hotels may ultimately have to be addressed in the High Court according to a district court judge. The comments were made by Judge Colm Roberts at Midleton District Court where he convicted Xiu Lan Hotels Ltd. operator of the Fota Island Resort in County Cork of operating a courtesy car where the driver did not have a licence to drive a small public service vehicle.
The prosecution was brought by the National Transport Authority under Section 46 of the Taxi Regulation Act 2013 in relation to a courtesy car from the Fota Island Resort that was stopped at Killahora, Glounthane County Cork. Brian Hallissey, defence barrister for the hotel said that the practice of providing courtesy cars was common throughout the country and that this decision would ultimately impact hotels across Ireland.
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Judge Roberts said that he sympathised with the hotel and agreed that the conviction would have far reaching implications. He said: “I do have sympathy for the hotel and their employees, they were acting on advice. I also accept that the NTA had to take the case and I have to convict. Ultimately this may have to go to the High Court to be clarified, I do understand this has national consequences.”
<snip>
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If you're getting a wage to drive hotel guests then you're driving for a reward.That still requires a PSV AFAIK.
I'm fairly sure there are hotels around D4 using dealer loaner vehicles to drive guests without a PSV up here.
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I saw the headline and the word 'Fota' jumped in to my head straight away. My old base had the contract there fer years and I actually did once question the concierge over the PSV issue of their Bently courtesy car and he fobbed me off with some wishy-washy bull$hit.
Back then every base taxi driver would easily get 2 or 3 nice jobs per shift from that hotel and the Bently (3.5K per annum road tax) was always parked up outside the hotel door seldom moving and I'm guessing only ever used fer the top VIP clients.
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I'm wondering whom grassed them up ? because no way did the NTA cop this on by themselves. Fota is 10km outside the city and in the middle of nowhere, they serve wedding guests till 6am every weekend regardless if residents or not because no one is checking on anything that far out of the city and minor laws tend to be overlooked.
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Many hotels have a courtesy bus.
Hotel in the airport
Hoggs head in Kerry
And prob plenty more
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Buses must have LPSV licences. I think the drivers have to sit a test (CPC?) every couple of years rather than once at port of entry.
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Hmm, interesting... I wonder where the PSV bit comes into it? Did the hotel provide a driver as well as the car? Or did the hotel have a taxi that they lent to hotel guests?
Court decision throws legality of hotel courtesy cars into doubt, says judge (https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/court-decision-throws-legality-of-hotel-courtesy-cars-into-doubt-says-judge-1630606.html)
The legality of the provision of courtesy cars to paying guests by hotels may ultimately have to be addressed in the High Court according to a district court judge. The comments were made by Judge Colm Roberts at Midleton District Court where he convicted Xiu Lan Hotels Ltd. operator of the Fota Island Resort in County Cork of operating a courtesy car where the driver did not have a licence to drive a small public service vehicle.
The prosecution was brought by the National Transport Authority under Section 46 of the Taxi Regulation Act 2013 in relation to a courtesy car from the Fota Island Resort that was stopped at Killahora, Glounthane County Cork. Brian Hallissey, defence barrister for the hotel said that the practice of providing courtesy cars was common throughout the country and that this decision would ultimately impact hotels across Ireland.
<snip>
Judge Roberts said that he sympathised with the hotel and agreed that the conviction would have far reaching implications. He said: “I do have sympathy for the hotel and their employees, they were acting on advice. I also accept that the NTA had to take the case and I have to convict. Ultimately this may have to go to the High Court to be clarified, I do understand this has national consequences.”
<snip>
Cheetahs, Cheetahs, never win! 8)
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The Bentley courtesy car in Fota is not actually 'courtesy' meaning free, they charge the guests fer the use of it.
A simple solution fer the hotel would be to plate the Bentley up as a Limo and have 2 or 3 of the staff do the PSV test.
A Grand to plate it up and 250 Euro per staff member to sit and pass the PSV test.
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The Bentley courtesy car in Fota is not actually 'courtesy' meaning free, they charge the guests fer the use of it.
A simple solution fer the hotel would be to plate the Bentley up as a Limo and have 2 or 3 of the staff do the PSV test.
A Grand to plate it up and 250 Euro per staff member to sit and pass the PSV test.
It's probably cheaper to pay the fine.
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The Bentley courtesy car in Fota is not actually 'courtesy' meaning free, they charge the guests fer the use of it.
A simple solution fer the hotel would be to plate the Bentley up as a Limo and have 2 or 3 of the staff do the PSV test.
A Grand to plate it up and 250 Euro per staff member to sit and pass the PSV test.
It's probably cheaper to pay the fine.
Agreed, but even if they pay the fine then the Bentley goes out of service.
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Just for completeness:
31 May 2024
NTA: Hotel Courtesy Cars and Drivers must have a Licence (https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/hotel-courtesy-cars-and-drivers-must-have-a-licence/)
Midleton District Court in Cork ruled on Monday that a hotel courtesy car operating without a SPSV licence was doing so unlawfully. Courtesy cars with eight passenger seats or less must be licensed as an SPSV and driven by SPSV Drivers. (Vehicles with nine or more passenger seats do not fall under any SPSV regulation.)
Judge Colm Roberts said that NTA had made its case that the courtesy car service did fall under the legislation as set out. “I do believe the service is one requiring a public service licence,” he said.
The hotel was operating a private vehicle to carry people for reward while the driver did not hold a licence to drive a small public service vehicle. This was contrary to Sec 22(4) of the Taxi Regulation Acts and therefore an offence.
SPSV licences are available for courtesy cars and should be in place before any operation of services. NTA took the case as part of its ongoing unlicenced SPSV services operations under the Taxi Regulation Act 2013. This is NTA’s second courtesy car success in the last year, with a further 15 unlicenced SPSV services prosecuted which were unrelated to the hospitality industry.[my emphasis]
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Just for completeness:
31 May 2024
NTA: Hotel Courtesy Cars and Drivers must have a Licence (https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/hotel-courtesy-cars-and-drivers-must-have-a-licence/)
Midleton District Court in Cork ruled on Monday that a hotel courtesy car operating without a SPSV licence was doing so unlawfully. Courtesy cars with eight passenger seats or less must be licensed as an SPSV and driven by SPSV Drivers. (Vehicles with nine or more passenger seats do not fall under any SPSV regulation.)
Judge Colm Roberts said that NTA had made its case that the courtesy car service did fall under the legislation as set out. “I do believe the service is one requiring a public service licence,” he said.
The hotel was operating a private vehicle to carry people for reward while the driver did not hold a licence to drive a small public service vehicle. This was contrary to Sec 22(4) of the Taxi Regulation Acts and therefore an offence.
SPSV licences are available for courtesy cars and should be in place before any operation of services. NTA took the case as part of its ongoing unlicenced SPSV services operations under the Taxi Regulation Act 2013. This is NTA’s second courtesy car success in the last year, with a further 15 unlicenced SPSV services prosecuted which were unrelated to the hospitality industry.[my emphasis]
Hotel minibuses?
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Loads of private cars in Cork doing school runs provided by School Transport and no SPSV licence.
Car and driver have no license and getting paid by the state
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Sounds like rural Ireland is full of entrepreneurs 'trying harder' to make a few bob!
Drove a farmerette up to Heuston station this morning. She lived a couple of miles outside Ballinasloe and regular taxis wouldn't come out to them. We got taking about the local area hackney and she was saying there's plenty of private cars doing country runs into town at the weekends. She even mentioned a pub owned by a former Irish rugby player who bought a mini-bus and, if you spent enough in the pub, got a free ride home in the mini-bus!
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Plenty of pubs have der own mini bus.
They provide a free service to and from the pub.
Otherwise the pub would be empty
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I guess it depends on big the minibus is. NTA says "Vehicles with nine or more passenger seats do not fall under any SPSV regulation." So if it was an 8-seater, could it be a 'sPSV'?
Anyways, could the Ballinasloe publican be driving for 'hire and reward'? Buy 20 pints and get a 'free' lift home. Don't buy 20 pints and you're walking >:D
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Plenty of pubs have der own mini bus.
They provide a free service to and from the pub.
Otherwise the pub would be empty
That comes under "Hire or reward". I doubt the f**king tight farmers care as long as they get home for free.
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Free service
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Free service
The pub gets increased sales due to supplying a "free service", the reward.
You can rest assured the culchies wouldn't supply a free service to non-drinkers.
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There's no such thing as a free ride. Alas SPSV licensing regulations only apply to vehicles designed to accommodate 8 passengers or less.
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More profit from a btl of coke than a pint of beer by the way.
There's no such thing as a free ride. Alas SPSV licensing regulations only apply to vehicles designed to accommodate 8 passengers or less.