Irish Taxi Forum
Public Area => Taxi Talk => Topic started by: Rat Catcher on July 24, 2025, 03:02:16 pm
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As I may have mentioned in other threads I did apply for a grant when the second round of eSPSV25 opened. I'm still undecided whether it's a practice run for eSPSV26 (assuming there will be an eSPSV26) or whether I'm going to panic buy 5-6 months before my licence expires and 7-8 months before the current last permissible date of operation for my current vehicle which is in showroom condition with relatively low kilometreage and one careful owner, 2 owners in total.
Anywaysanall, here's where I'm at with the application process:
June 23 - completed initial application on tinternet and received acknowledgement email advising that the application would be processed within 10 working days.
July 07 - having received no further correspondence I contacted NTA by telephone and was advised that my application was then marked priority and would be dealt with that very day.
July 09 - having received no further correspondence I contacted NTA by telephone once again, was put on hold while the lady spoke with the relative department and was then advised that my application was being processed as we spoke. To be fair, I received the initial grant offer letter by email c.24 minutes later.
July 18 - printed the 21 page agreement letter and sent the same by snail mail as required.
July 22 - received second "provisional" grant offer letter.
July 24 - telephoned NTA to seek clarification on a number of points and find out what the next steps in the process are. Briefly, the discussion covered:
The latest "provisional" offer letter states that the offer will expire on the earlier of 09/09/2025 or funds no longer being available*. The extremely helpful gentlemen I spoke with advised that there is a chance that no funds will be available to reimburse my €20,000 as they had c.500 applications with funding potentially being limited to 400 payments. He noted that some applicants might apply for a lower level of grant than they eventually qualify for and get paid hence it's not an exact science at the offer stage. When pressed to quantify in percentage terms the risk of losing one's €20k he suggested a maximum of 5% risk with virtually no risk if one complies with the T&Cs sooner rather than later so, essentially, a sliding scale of 0% to 5%.
I did recall Watty recently opining that we are running businesses and ought to think like businessmen so despite finding it difficult to think of what I do (or don't do) on a day to day basis as a business I did ask if we are supposed to be running a business or chucking €20,000 on a roulette table. In any event, the gentleman wasn't prepared to commit the risk percentages - most likely no more than guesstimates intended to be as helpful as possible - to paper and advised that audio recordings of telephone calls are only available to supervisors and not to clients. He advised that the terminology in the letter is considered to be adequate in alerting applicants to the potential financial risk. He also stressed that it's extremely unlikely that any extensions will be granted in respect of round 2 offers simply because the funding is unlikely to be available... which suggests that despite what one may have read in newspaper reports extensions may have been available during round one?
Interestingly, he did ask what car I intended buying. I suggested Tesla was among the options with the qualification that the salesman in Tesla had advised me that, in his experience, NTA are extremely difficult to deal with particular reference to inflexible deadlines where certain lead times are required for delivery. The gentleman in NTA similarly advised that Tesla can be slow in fulfilling orders so it became quite apparent that there's no love lost between NTA and Tesla. Perhaps Tesla just don't invest such time/effort/money in building relationships as other dealer(s) might.
On the positive front, the gentleman advised that the 2 month time limit doesn't apply to satisfying the scrappage element of the grant. The next step is to provide them with a registration number for the new car, then within 10 working days you'll (hopefully) get another approval and can book an Initial Suitability Inspection and will receive the payment form provided there's still funding available. Then you're home and hosed, you can return the payment form and vehicle destruction certificate (if claiming scrappage) pretty much at your leisure.
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This Provisional Grant Offer lapses on 09/09/2025 or when there is no longer any amount available under the
2025 Available Funding to be made available as an eSPSV Grant, whichever is earlier.
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Did you order the car ?
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No. Like I said, I'm still undecided whether it's a practice run for eSPSV26 (assuming there will be an eSPSV26) or whether I'm going to panic buy 5-6 months before my licence expires and 7-8 months before the current last permissible date of operation for my current vehicle which is in showroom condition with relatively low kilometreage and one careful owner, 2 owners in total.
If you had asked me yesterday I woulda said I'll probably buy one now. Today I'm more leaning towards holding out 'till next year. I'm not a hard worker and don't want to be so if I hold out and for some reason don't get another grant offer in Feb it wouldn't be the end of the world, I'd still do what I do using a diesel or hybrid.
With my OCD the gamble is a concern. I like a bet but I don't believe in gambling with money I can't afford to lose... and I can't afford to lose €20,000... in fact, I'll have to borrow the €20,000 if I buy now so I'll be gambling with someone else's money. If I hold out till next year I'd expect to have the guts of it from my own resources. Also, I usually go on holiday at this time of year... with the 10 day wait for another bit of paper before one is allowed book the ISI a new car would rule out the holiday. I haven't booked anything so that's not a huge concern. I did think of just going away during the 10 day wait but I wouldn't be able to enjoy myself wondering if it's really going to be 10 days and if it doesn't happen (my initial application was seemingly ignored beyond the 10 days that was supposed to apply to that) am I going to lose €20,000 that I don't have.
In any event, I reckon I'd have plenty of time next year assuming the scheme opens in mid February as usual and assuming they process my application within a couple of weeks. I actually thought you had to comply with the scrappage element before your current licence expires. That seemingly isn't the case, you just have to get the new car licensed. Finding that out has eased my mind a little.
All that said, tomorrow I could be back leaning towards buying a car that I don't strictly need... I really am in two minds but I've promised myself not to think about it over the weekend. I might well end up just tossing a coin next Monday or Tuesday.... and, possibly, a second toss to choose between an MGS5 and ID4/BZ4X with a further toss of the coin should the VW/BZ4X side win.
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Ditto--I have till May 2026 and live in the hope there's another year extension and thoughts of being 71 while spending guts 50k(allowing for home charger/new meter etc)----that said turning down the 20k Grant would be bad economics !
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Well, I only really applied this time round on foot of a colleague/competitor telling me that one could buy a Toyota EV for less than a VW. It's actually a little bit more but not much in it. Other than that conversation I wouldn't have looked at it at all but then it kinda grew legs in my mind.
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They've fukked up getting the public into EV's and they've fukked up getting the public to retrofit their houses. If you were an optimist, you could argue the taxi EV transition is a success and is likely to be repeated into 2026 because it's the only positive thing the Govt can point to in this space?
Multi-million euro retrofit loan scheme under review after disappointing uptake revealed (Indo paywall) (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/multi-million-euro-retrofit-loan-scheme-under-review-after-disappointing-uptake-revealed/a89996458.html)
A flagship scheme to encourage homeowners to retrofit is being reviewed after struggling to take off. The €500m Home Energy Upgrade Loan Scheme provided loans to an average of only one household a day in its first year, with borrowings totalling just €17m. If that rate of uptake continues, less than €50m will have been provided by the time the scheme closes at the end of next year.
... The scheme was promoted as a solution to the fact that we are way behind on the 2030 target of having 500,000 homes retrofitted to BER B2 standard, and 400,000 heat pumps installed. “A mere 355 loan approvals over an entire year are not going to make up for the shortfall.”
900,000 EV's & 500,000 retrofitted homes by 2030 rofl
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It's certainly proved a success this year. All previous years you could apply and get a grant any time between mid Feb and mid Dec.
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Rats ,Can you still get the grand ,even if you are not scrapping the car ?
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Rats ,Can you still get the grand ,even if you are not scrapping the car ?
YES .you get the coin that everybody gets for buying an EV and an extra 5k for being a taxi .
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Ditto--I have till May 2026 and live in the hope there's another year extension and thoughts of being 71 while spending guts 50k(allowing for home charger/new meter etc)----that said turning down the 20k Grant would be bad economics !
With all the extra costs and increase in Electricity prices .If you could sell your present motor for decent coin and put it into a basic Diesel Dacia .Do the job without the stress .If you got 8 or 9 for what your driving 15 grand more would put you in an x demo model .
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Rats ,Can you still get the grand ,even if you are not scrapping the car ?
YES .you get the coin that everybody gets for buying an EV and an extra 5k for being a taxi .
Thanks John .Have had the plate out on rental since Covid .My mondeo [15 reg} got rear end and written off .I bought a 21 megane 1.5 dci est.Circumstances have changed and was going to plate up the Megane in November .Mind hold off on the Elecky front for the time being .
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Rats ,Can you still get the grand ,even if you are not scrapping the car ?
YES .you get the coin that everybody gets for buying an EV and an extra 5k for being a taxi .
Thanks John .Have had the plate out on rental since Covid .My mondeo [15 reg} got rear end and written off .I bought a 21 megane 1.5 dci est.Circumstances have changed and was going to plate up the Megane in November .Mind hold off on the Elecky front for the time being .
If the Plate is still attached to the Crashed vehicle it MIGHT be possible to get Scrapage BUT it might be the Licence Holder gets the Coin not you .?
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Quick Explination Golf .Your car is in the Plate owners Name .So it would be them who applies for the Grant .You would then need to Finance the Deal and hope when the check for 20K came through they handed it over .You could go through MD and they will do all the necessary at a price .You would not get Finance for a Vehicle that you would not own on Paper .
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It's €10k you get not €5k. The grant and VRT relief everyone gets is deducted from the sales price by the dealer... so the extra taxi grant is €10k + another €10k if you scrap a qualifying vehicle.
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Is there a qualifying time Requirement .Does the Licence need to be attached for a few years before you can qualify for the scrappage .If you crashed written off the car .Would you have to wait with the plate attached to the Wreckage to get the Grant as opposed to transferring the Plate on to another vehicle while you wait for the Grant .Meaning the time between you wrecking a car and getting the Grant and new vehicle you cannot use the Licence ? You could be off the road for months waiting .
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Read that Again Golf .You rented out your Plate after Covid ?The car it was on was wrecked .Circumstances changed now you are replating a different motor .If thats the Story you would need the Wrecked motor to scrap .
Now for plate renters The lad who rents the Plate needs to put the Car in your name Probably has an FR2 change of ownership signed by you to let him regain his motor .Now He gets the plate holder to apply for the Grant but he pays the money for the car .So he now has a New EV in your name .You have a person wanting to rent the plate so win win .Now what happens if he Crashes before the 3 years are up will the Plate holder have to put another EV on the Road under the Plate or if the Car owner decides to stop working his car as a taxi .Where does the Plate owner stand .You might need to put another EV under it to rent it if the 3 year window for accepting the Grant is not reached or if its written off .
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Car has to be the current car on the plate and it has to have been so licensed for at least 3 years and be either over 7yo or have over 300k kilos on the clock... but, as stated, you still get the other 10k without claiming the scrappage element... and it is €10k on top of the normal grants, if the erm got less he was done up like a kipper!
The car has to be registered before it can be licensed as a taxi hence it's a private car you're buying and registering. To qualify for the full (€10k + €10k) it must be under 3 months old with less than 3,000 kilos on the clock... so, technically, you you could buy it before applying for the grant but you'd want to be damn sure you're going to get the grant to do that, I guess.
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I know one lad who put an EV on a plate he was renting. The platelord charged him (can't remember how much, probably a few grand) for facilitating the transaction. At the time I thought the platelord was taking a liberty but, on reflection, I guess it could potentially fuck him up. I guess they musta found a way of crossing the eyes and dotting the teas that protected both of their interests as far as possible.
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Going back to the post before last...
When I last bought a new car back in 2004 they had just brought in a new system under which you had to pay road tax before you got the VLC (log book).
Given that we now need the VLC for the ISI which the car must pass to get the taxi licence how does it now work in practice?
It seems like a catch 22 i.e. you can't tax the car as a taxi without the taxi licence but you can't get a taxi licence without a VLC which, assuming the system hasn't changed since 2004, you can't get without taxing the car?
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I know one lad who put an EV on a plate he was renting. The platelord charged him (can't remember how much, probably a few grand) for facilitating the transaction. At the time I thought the platelord was taking a liberty but, on reflection, I guess it could potentially fuck him up. I guess they musta found a way of crossing the eyes and dotting the teas that protected both of their interests as far as possible.
Ifn the lad renting the plate mullered said heep inte the side of the 29A, platelord would be on the line for the outstanding amount remaining on the 3 year service period of the eSPSV grant.
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Maybe but he'd been renting from him for a good while. No reason he'd run away and he'd get the insurance or someone would, not sure what they agreed in the end but I did see him with the plate on the EV... When I was talking to him before he bought it I got the impression he wasn't going to go through with it.
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So for example John rents his plate to Paul both related to Big Dommo .Paul funds a new EV with Johns help as he needs to apply for the grant as its his licence ..Theres a Party for Big Dommos nieces second borns forst born in the Pub near the Flats beside the Chipper .It all kicks off and the two lads fall out Paul has a Change of ownership pre signed in an envelope at home drops it into the post gets the car in his name as he paid for it .Now its a Private car no longer plying as a taxi and the Grant people want a refund .from the PLATE owner as he got the grant
Now he cannot say he aided a fraud by pretending it was he who was purchasing the car in name only thats illegal .So Paul now has the upper hand on the PlateLord .And says "Here bud two scores a week to rent your plate is enough take it or I fuck off and leave you with the Bill .He is only offering the two scores a week because he needs your tax clearance to keep the plate live . Agreeing to facilitate an EV Grant by a plateholder for an Vehicle owner could get messy .
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Nothing to stop the plate owner reporting the VLC lost or stolen and getting a replacement thereby invalidating the original. But you could extend that sort of logic to any situation where individuals trade in second hand cars. I guess there needs to be an element of trust in any business relationship and, quite possibly, further written contracts.
As a legalistic man I suspect you'd understand better than I what might amount to fraud. AFAIK the SPSV regulations only require the vehicle to be registered in the plate owner's name. They say possession is c.89% of the law but, as I'm sure you know, the registered owner of a vehicle is not necessarily the legal owner hence proof of registration doesn't necessarily equate to proof of ownership in a legal sense.
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Even more complications if there is any "drip" on it !
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Just a quick update on the OP.... On the erm's advice I rang to clarify what needs to be done within the specified time limit and/or the unspecified time limit that may apply if funds run out.
The lady on the phone confirmed that the next step is to submit a registration number. The technical team with then take up to 12 (it was 10 last time I asked) working days to confirm that the car is eligible to be subjected to an ISI. BTW, they enclose a list of vehicles that are suitable for use as taxis with the second "provisional" grant offer letter so they're taking up to 12 working days to confirm that a car that they've already told you is suitable is suitable... and that's up to 12 working days that come out of your time limit... although the lady I spoke with yesterday did suggest that they may make additional effort if required if things are getting tight. She also mentioned the possibility of a time extension where a delay might occur, something the first gentleman I spoke with ruled out, advising me that it's extremely unlikely that funds will be available to facilitate such extensions this time round.
The lady also confirmed that once your car from the list of approved cars is approved as being approved and from the list of approved cars within 12 working days you need to book an ISI and once the car passes that inspection you'll get your payment form. As far as the specified time limit is concerned the clock stops running at that point i.e. if claiming scrappage you can scrap your old car pretty much at your leisure but before the overall grant scheme end date in mid December.
I also enquired if the car you're scrapping has to still be licensed when you licence the new EV. She suggest that it doesn't but the late renewal fee would apply if it's lapsed i.e. lapsed since you applied for the grant but she did suggest that such theoretical queries might be better addressed to the relevant department by email.
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Ah thats clear .Great to get to talk to a real person that dosent know what the story is so will make up a story to keep you happy .Try ringing somebody to see if tablets are covered by the Drugs Refund Scheme .
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Indeed. As they won't commit any of this to paper I would advise anyone pursuing the grant to phone up and get the call reference number for themself. The answers I got are obviously specific to my defined application... which I don't intend pursuing this time round. While the same answers are likely to be given in respect of any other equal set of circumstances the information I got is not clear from either of the grant offer letters except that there is an unquantified or unquantifiable risk of their funds running out before your specified expiry date. That they make perfectly clear in the first paragraph of both offer letters.
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Indeed. As they won't commit any of this to paper I would advise anyone pursuing the grant to phone up and get the call reference number for themself. The answers I got are obviously specific to my defined application... which I don't intend pursuing this time round. While the same answers are likely to be given in respect of any other equal set of circumstances the information I got is not clear from either of the grant offer letters except that there is an unquantified or unquantifiable risk of their funds running out before your specified expiry date. That they make perfectly clear in the first paragraph of both offer letters.
Did you offer a registration plate number?
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No. I'm going to wait until I really have to change the car next year. She did say you can use any registration number (i.e. from another car that's the same make/model as you're buying) in the first instance to check that the car they've already told you is suitable is suitable but you'd still have to go through the same process again with the actual registration number before they'll let you book an ISI so it seems that all that would achieve would be to add another up to 12 working days onto the process.
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In Simple English Rodent .You get an OFFER of a Grant .The OFFER is not really an OFFER as it states you only Get the Grant if there is money left to pay it .But you might possibly assume if they offered the Money they have it to pay out .But I suppose if 100% of offers are accepted they could actually run out of Grant Money ?
Then to be sure of getting the Full Grant you would need to go through all the Stages of Finding a Car getting posession of the car getting meter and stickers getting scrappage cert ,getting passed out and getting all the paperwork back to the Grants office before the two months lifespan on the Offer Expires .(There is a possibility a late filing of all the paperwork could or could not result in you getting or not getting or only getting part of the Grant depending on who you talk to in the Grant office on the Phone ?
So if you are applying for the grant have an Idea what motor you want check on availability and delivery time even before you get the Grant offer .Salesmen want to sell cars so wont mind if you do not go through with any purchase .The vehicle you actually want most likely wont be available and even if it is on the list of acceptable vehicles it might take two weeks for the grants people to confirm that although it on the list they need to check its on the list .Then you need to allow a bit more time to have darkened rear glass replaced .Probably find Dealers will not actually change it until you part with a lot of coin .
You can see why the Offer is restricted to Two months to allow other drivers access to Grant Money that some Grant holders will not be drawing Down but the two month Window to complete the process is tight .Especially if you intend to do it all yourself ?
Just a Question on as long as the money lasts ..We know they run out of funding for WATs regularly .Is there any way of finding out how many EV Grants have actually been drawn down so far this year ?
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It's a provisional offer of a grant, erm. In the real world it's a nailed on certainty i.e. once you get that second offer letter and buy and licence a new EV before the defined expiry date you're getting your money. However, nobody I spoke with is prepared to commit that to paper. The letter says there's a chance you won't get your money i.e. if funds run out. My OCD won't let me ignore what's written in black and white regardless of the fact that I know that's completely irrational.
You don't need to get the scrappage cert before the specific offer expiry date. All you need to do is buy and licence a new EV, await confirmation that it's approved as being approved having already been specified as approved within the list of approved vehicles enclosed with your provisional offer letter and, on receipt of that confirmation, book your ISI. You can continue using your existing car (whether you're scrapping it or not) until the new car is licenced i.e. passes it's ISI - of course you may have practical difficulties in doing that such as not wanting to buy a new meter or not being able to insure two cars but that's the same whether you're getting a grant or not, I guess. After passing the ISI you get your payment form. At that point the money is in the bank and you can scrap your old car and submit the relevant paperwork pretty much at your leisure but not after 13 December in the case of ESPSV25. None of that is particularly clear from the provisional offer letter - that just says you have to comply with all conditions before the provisional offer lapses. In my case that was "on 09/09/2025 or when there is no longer any amount available under the 2025 Available Funding to be made available as an eSPSV Grant, whichever is earlier".
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Who said NTA don't work nights. I got the following reminder about my provisional grant offer at 00:17 this morning! Interestingly, it stipulates that all conditions must be met before the specified expiry date - which is, strictly, contrary to what I was told on the telephone twice - but makes no mention of the previously stressed potential earlier expiry date:
Case Ref: CA******
Dear Applicant,
This is a reminder that the closing date for your Provisional Grant Offer is 09/09/2025.
You will need to have the eSPSV criteria completed before that date in order to receive Grant funding. Please refer to the eSPSV Terms & Conditions and Information Guide: https://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi/forms-and-guides/ (https://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi/forms-and-guides/)
Remember that your Grant in its entirety will be retained by the NTA until all requirements are met. No Grant funding will be paid after eSPSV 2025 closing date.
Important: Your case reference number CA****** must be written on all documents sent to the NTA. This will improve processing time and avoid confusion.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact our support team at 0818 064000. We invite you to keep up to date on all industry matters through our website, https://www.nationaltransport.ie/. (https://www.nationaltransport.ie/.)
Yours sincerely,
National Transport Authority
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It's a provisional offer of a grant, erm. In the real world it's a nailed on certainty i.e. once you get that second offer letter and buy and licence a new EV before the defined expiry date you're getting your money. However, nobody I spoke with is prepared to commit that to paper. The letter says there's a chance you won't get your money i.e. if funds run out. My OCD won't let me ignore what's written in black and white regardless of the fact that I know that's completely irrational.
You don't need to get the scrappage cert before the specific offer expiry date. All you need to do is buy and licence a new EV, await confirmation that it's approved as being approved having already been specified as approved within the list of approved vehicles enclosed with your provisional offer letter and, on receipt of that confirmation, book your ISI. You can continue using your existing car (whether you're scrapping it or not) until the new car is licenced i.e. passes it's ISI - of course you may have practical difficulties in doing that such as not wanting to buy a new meter or not being able to insure two cars but that's the same whether you're getting a grant or not, I guess. After passing the ISI you get your payment form. At that point the money is in the bank and you can scrap your old car and submit the relevant paperwork pretty much at your leisure but not after 13 December in the case of ESPSV25. None of that is particularly clear from the provisional offer letter - that just says you have to comply with all conditions before the provisional offer lapses. In my case that was "on 09/09/2025 or when there is no longer any amount available under the 2025 Available Funding to be made available as an eSPSV Grant, whichever is earlier".
You could have asked all the drivers of EVs who post here rather than put yourself through this keyboard torment.
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I got different answers from different men and, to be fair, this is the first time there's been a two month time limit and the first time the scheme has been fully subscribed so, until this time round, it didn't matter a fuck if you ran out of time as you could just apply again.
In any event, I'd rather find out for myself than get caught out and try to explain to NTA that I done what I read on some mickey mouse forum!
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I got different answers from different men and, to be fair, this is the first time there's been a two month time limit and the first time the scheme has been fully subscribed so, until this time round, it didn't matter a fuck if you ran out of time as you could just apply again.
In any event, I'd rather find out for myself than get caught out and try to explain to NTA that I done what I read on some mickey mouse forum!
The chap that bought the Prius turns off his "work" phone from Tuesday through to Friday. He had a price on a previously selected one of €21K.
The Arfur Daley from the second-hand dealership in Lusk tried to contact him saying he another punter interested and couldn't get through. He sold the car to the second guy.
The only other heap was 2K dearer, hence the 23K price tag.