Irish Taxi Forum
Public Area => Sports and Gambling => Topic started by: Belker on October 28, 2025, 06:50:38 am
-
I'm not sure that I have the right headline here, maybe it should be 'Paddy Power explained' or 'Ken's rant' or simply 'Answering SB's question' but anywaysnall:
...... I'd be interested in what you think about PP closing 28 shops. Is it simply that people are just happier gambling online these days?
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2025/10/15/almost-120-jobs-at-risk-as-paddy-power-closes-28-outlets-in-republic/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2025/10/15/almost-120-jobs-at-risk-as-paddy-power-closes-28-outlets-in-republic/)
Intriguing question Brian, I'll put a bit of thought in to my answer and start a new topic on your question shortly, I'll try to keep it consice and understandable fer the non gamblers.
-
A short answer to your question Brian is 'YES'.
A brief history of Irish bookie shops is that they were first established in Ireland by the Free state government back in 1926, but it was a full 32 years later before the UK allowed the same off-course betting shops in 1961.
Suffice to say that a lot of Skullduggery went on in the early days of both countries from inside and outside the counter and add on the shop staff skimming off the top.
I don't know how much the Irish betting shop tax was when it first started back in 1926, but in 1976 at when I started working at aged 11 it was at a whopping 20%, which was double the UK betting tax at just 10%. Eventually in 1986 after much lobbying by the Irish bookies the Irish betting tax was reduced to the same as the UK at 10%.
-
The English bookies smelt money in the Irish market back in 1986 and they arrived on our shores in their droves with Coral, Stanley, Ladbroke, William Hill, Victor Chandler, Etc paying absolutely ludicrous money to any independent bookie with any kind of a hovel of a shop as long as it had a Bookie Licence, obviousely most small independants sold up.
But the English bookies also bought up chains of shops, Stuart Kenny of Kenny bookmakers would have been one of their biggest acquisition's along with many other chains, and the Irish government of the time took a very Dim View of those that had legally lobbied fer a reduced Tax rate to now take advantage of it by legally selling up.
A 'Dim View' that is still held by the Irish government to this day, as a few years later in 1988 the same few ex-bookie chain owners that has profited massively from their lobbying the government to get the Betting tax reduced only to sell up started up a new firm of their own and they called it PADDY POWER.
-
As I have or will mention Stuart Kenny a few times, I will say he was the real brains behind the Paddy Power movement, giving up that he took the Queen's Shilling by selling up, he was a decent gentleman, as CEO of Paddy Power fer many years he had brillant theories, pay every customer with a gripe, never lose a customer, money backs fer anything at all, never leave a customer disgruntled (within reason), he like myself embraced Ghandi's theory; "The most Important person in any business is the Customer". Unfortunately the remaining directors board of Paddy Power did not agree with the way he was openly agreeing to the terms of the new found 'Gamble aware' campaign and slowly but surely they shamefully edged him out of his CEO position.
-
Paddy Power were massively successful with the brains of Dublins best bookies running it together and all of them with huge bank balances after selling their chains to the English bookies, so successful that they ran most of the English bookies back home and wiped out most of the small independent bookies that didn't sell to the English.
Then along came the internet which nobody forsaw as being the biggest Game-changer ever in the history of gambling. I must mention the original long forgotten pioneers of online bookmakers here, it was a small family run bookie called O Halloran's from Youghal in county Cork that had the first ever online betting site call 'Luvbet', it was not a huge hit by any means but they offered ante post odds on every race every day, unfortunately O Halloran's policy of "Lay Everything offered" soon back-fired and the mostly English Professional punters wiped them out very quickly and they ceased trading in 2002.
https://www.irishracing.com/news/Luvbet.com-cease-trading/7999 (https://www.irishracing.com/news/Luvbet.com-cease-trading/7999)
-
O Halloran's 'Luvbet' site 25 years back had opened the door to what is todays massive global online betting circus and it got very popular very quick, even Stuart Kenny then CEO of Paddy Power once commented in an interview that he himself could not believe how quickly the online market took over.
Back in the Seventies, Eighties and Nineties bookie shops did very well, our first ever Cashmans bookie shop on Blarney street we had to move out of to a bigger premises around the corner on Shandon street because the old shop could not handle the volume of customers. Our main inner city shop at No 1 Maylor street, we had to buy No 2 Maylor street and expand in to it, and then buy No 3 Maylor street and expand again.
-
The internet online betting changed everything, around the Millenium every town in Ireland had about half a dozen bookie shops on every main street, Mallow in county Cork actually had 8 !
But by 2010 that had all changed, bookies who had paid huge money fer premises and licences or refurbishment costs were now looking at empty shops due to the online take-over, But the bigger problem was the staff, most bookies who bought premises and licences also took on the staff and with "their Time kept on" they would be due very large redundany settlements if they were left go, so in most cases it was actually cheaper to keep the shop open and running at a small profit/loss than to pay staff redundancy.
-
To actually eventually answer your question Silverbullet;
...... I'd be interested in what you think about PP closing 28 shops. Is it simply that people are just happier gambling online these days?
20 odd years on now from the online take-over and a lot of the bookie staff would have retired or moved on and the bookies don't hire staff anymore, they close shops gleefully when they cannot staff them.
There are a few exceptions and there is still a handful of bookie shops that still do well, but unlikely you will find a customer in there under Fifty years old, so the Clock is Ticking on them too !
-
...the first ever online betting site call 'Luvbet', it was not a huge hit by any means but they offered ante post odds on every race every day, unfortunately O Halloran's policy of "Lay Everything offered" soon back-fired and the mostly English Professional punters wiped them out very quickly and they ceased trading in 2002.
Thanks for the history lesson. Apart from the lotto, I don't gamble so what does 'lay everything offered' mean? I thought bookies set their own odds so they would win over the long term?
-
I worked for Stewart in the Fountain in Jamses Street .He brought in Vincent O Reilly and a Woman Called Gay in Queen Street .They introduced Morning Prices and Double result .Before they came along you use to have to wait on the Weigh In could be 15 minutes after the race was over .Stewart wanted to get your money back in your hand as quick as Possible .Vincent O Reilly sold his share in the Business years later to Stewart Kenny and his backers and bought the Graduate Pub In Kiliney .The Patrons bought a horse called Killiney Graduate and landed a few Huge touches .
Padraig Harrington and His brother started a thing called Jack Gambles .They made a Huge FUCKING Idiots Mistake .They needed to generate working Capital so offered a lot of Anty Post Stuff but the Stupidity was If your horse was a Non Runner you were on the SP fav in the race .THEY WENT BROKE .
Even Now if you drive around some Paddy Power Shops are Paddy Power and Others are Paddy Power .com .The Big money made by Stewart Kenny was in Property .
If you look around Dublin at the Moment even Dunnes Stores are closing their Own Shops and Shopping Centers and building appartments to rent .Ben Dunnes 4 Gaffs in Carpenters Town are knocked and appartments are there now a few 100 millions worth of gaffs paid for with the sale of Saint Bernard Knickers .Probably make the same profit with two girls in an office collecting rent as they were making with thousands of employees selling Groceries .
The Bookies use to be entertainment somewhere to escape to on a Saturday few pints and a bet meet your pals to talk shite .Bookies like Showbands have had their day .Just like Live bands were replaced by DJs .Real Bookies experience is replaced by Digital apps and watching racing on Telly .Only people going to Gowran Park on a Wednesday in December are owners trainers and stable Staff .The whole racing experience is now Leopardstown at Christmas ,Punchestown and the Galway Races nobody interested in Flat Racing .Tens of Millions spent on the Curragh nobody going .Phoenix Park Gone ,Baldoyle Gone .Leopardstown will be next that site must be worth close to a Billion ?
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/40959/killiney-graduate/form (https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/40959/killiney-graduate/form)
-
As I have or will mention Stuart Kenny a few times, I will say he was the real brains behind the Paddy Power movement, giving up that he took the Queen's Shilling by selling up, he was a decent gentleman, as CEO of Paddy Power fer many years he had brillant theories, pay every customer with a gripe, never lose a customer, money backs fer anything at all, never leave a customer disgruntled (within reason), he like myself embraced Ghandi's theory; "The most Important person in any business is the Customer". Unfortunately the remaining directors board of Paddy Power did not agree with the way he was openly agreeing to the terms of the new found 'Gamble aware' campaign and slowly but surely they shamefully edged him out of his CEO position.
I used to drive him around when he lived on Anglesea Road, Ballsbridge. He was influenced by me, and went on to shave his fading locks.
Son of a well connected high court judge IIRC.
https://www.independent.ie/business/stewart-kenny/26415614.html (https://www.independent.ie/business/stewart-kenny/26415614.html)
-
Aaron Logan wrote a book Paddy Power available in most charity shops at 5eu
Not a bad read with a good insight !
-
Anybody remember Kilmartins Bookies?,not even an audio commentary ...just wait for the result lol
-
Anybody remember Kilmartins Bookies?,not even an audio commentary ...just wait for the result lol
I remember Kilmartins of old, they like us were wiped out by the online and PP rush in the 2010's.
-
...the first ever online betting site call 'Luvbet', it was not a huge hit by any means but they offered ante post odds on every race every day, unfortunately O Halloran's policy of "Lay Everything offered" soon back-fired and the mostly English Professional punters wiped them out very quickly and they ceased trading in 2002.
Thanks for the history lesson. Apart from the lotto, I don't gamble so what does 'lay everything offered' mean? I thought bookies set their own odds so they would win over the long term?
@ Watty, I'm talking 'Old school' here, back in the day "Lay Everything" meant take every bet, similar to pubs allowing anyone in or Taxi drivers taking every fare.
-
@Belker - thank you ::clap
-
what's the biggest amount of lolly you saw someone winnin and losin ken.
-
what's the biggest amount of lolly you saw someone winnin and losin ken.
I have done all that before with you DMG, see page 3 and 4; http://intaxi.org/forum/index.php?topic=16128.0 (http://intaxi.org/forum/index.php?topic=16128.0)
-
To reminisce just fer the sake of reminiscing, as an 11 year old back in 1976 I was employed by my father whom was a bookie to microfilm the football coupon every Saturday afternoon, which involved an 11 year old me getting a bus in to town, jump in to any ABC Taxi on the Pana rank (whom we had an account with) and do a lap of the city collecting football coupons and any excess cash from all our city branches. And then microfilm all the football coupons in our Head office in a microfilmer that actually did not work (but nobody knew that). In 1976 getting a Tenner fer a few hours work as an 11 year old was like winning the Lotto, every Saturday !
-
I will add that the fella that done that Football coupon job before me had a mysterious football coupon through his hands which was £50 Irl punts @ 100/1 on 6 half time scores, the fact that he had Doncaster to be leading a high flying Liverpool at the time was his downfall and he was soon found out and fired.
It wasn't till 1994 that we finally got our act together and properly installled microfilm cameras (which actually worked) in all our shops, it only took us about 20 years and 5 found-out staff scams to do it though !
-
Back to my original point, in 1976 when I was collecting football coupons and cash from the inner city shops, Blarney street on the northside was always my Nemesis, I would have to literally fight my way through the crowd, and Dave as the manager and his staff at 3pm would look like something that had just been through an MMA bout !
Fast forward the clock by about 38 years to 2024 and a good looking Dave (As in Robert Redford 'Good Looking') is the manager of Boylesports in Douglas, Cork. As I'm temporarily evicted from my apartment from 9am to 5pm fer a week in 2024 due to the Fookin painter, I take solace in the comfort of the Briar Rose bar in the afternoon's and having a wager in the almost empty Boylespoerts bookies next door during Royal Ascort week where Dave was the manager, I say to him one afternoon; "Remember the days back in Blarney street when I could not get in the door ?". He replied; "I Do Ken", and nothing further was mentioned.
-
Microfilm... FFS, the kids of today don't know what carbon paper is!
-
@Belker - thank you ::clap
+1
You'll never see a bookie on a bike. 8)
-
Microfilm... FFS, the kids of today don't know what carbon paper is!
In Switzers, we had https://www.microfichereader.co.uk/ (https://www.microfichereader.co.uk/) in the accounts department.
-
Those were the days...
-
I'm crap at gambling, so I can't blame it on the
Sunshine...
I can't blame it on the
Moonlight...
I blame it on the bookie!!
(https://i.postimg.cc/HW9hLbZ6/Bookie.jpg) (https://postimages.org/) 8)
-
An Uncle of mine had one of the first shops in Dublin in 50s--Mid Abbey subsequently Kilmartins-he used to pay commission to all the hotel porters who would bet for the visitors to their hotels --Wynns, Gresham ,Ormond .Jurys, Clarance,Trinity Intercontinental and Shelbourne,bets settled following day !
One of the great strokes with Kilmartins was on Irish racing on a Sat --Extel the PA system used at the time gave off/results but on Sat when it was busy broadcast would be delayed and RTE used to do Airs and Races with live commentaries, hence you could back a sure thing before Extels "off"
Limits were super 200/1 Doubles 300/1 Trebles 500/1 Accums max anyone could win on the day was £500
-
An Uncle of mine had one of the first shops in Dublin in 50s--Mid Abbey subsequently Kilmartins-he used to pay commission to all the hotel porters who would bet for the visitors to their hotels --Wynns, Gresham ,Ormond .Jurys, Clarance,Trinity Intercontinental and Shelbourne,bets settled following day !
One of the great strokes with Kilmartins was on Irish racing on a Sat --Extel the PA system used at the time gave off/results but on Sat when it was busy broadcast would be delayed and RTE used to do Airs and Races with live commentaries, hence you could back a sure thing before Extels "off"
Limits were super 200/1 Doubles 300/1 Trebles 500/1 Accums max anyone could win on the day was £500
Bill Brady ? When the Busses went Conductor less he closed shop .Not unusual for Conductors to lose their Bag during their break and Bill would Loan it back to them .
Kilmarting expanded the Shope as in took over the opposition in places like Inchicore where they had 5 Shops when ESB and OXO won Grand Nationals all the old ones had their shilling each way on and a lot of one shop bookies could not pay out .
-
Anywhere near bus garages or terminus, hence Conquer Hill in Clontarf,Broadstone,Donnybrook Ringsend,like wise in docks Tavern, Campions and lower/upper Sherriff st etc
-
Inchicore was the Bookies fav Spot 3000 men in the Works 700 in Spa Road building Busses 400 in Rowantrees near the Prison .Kilmartins had 45 shops ,PJ Maher had 2 Cecil Fines had one .Hannigans had one later joined by Second ever Paddy Power ,Mecca ,Two Ladbrokes Trackways .Three Pubs with in Shop Bookies .More like Vegas than dead end little estate .
Also Famous as the Dead Center of Dublin not Glasnevin ! Graveyards we had loads .Bullys Acre at lights in Kilmainhan ,Nuns had a Graveyard on Suir Road houses built on it now at back of Highbrasil .Goldenbridge first Catholic Graveyard in Ireland .Nuns had a Plot in Goldenbridge for themselves and Dead Orphand .Priests had a Plot in the Obolates Church .Prods had a Plot beside the Bank use to be a church another Graveyard on Inchicore road where the Church Spire is still standing and a graveyard in Bluebell .
Bookies and Graveyards .There is a Novel in there somewhere .Two certainties losing to the Bookies and Death .
-
Inchicore was the Bookies fav Spot 3000 men in the Works 700 in Spa Road building Busses 400 in Rowantrees near the Prison .Kilmartins had 45 shops ,PJ Maher had 2 Cecil Fines had one .Hannigans had one later joined by Second ever Paddy Power ,Mecca ,Two Ladbrokes Trackways .Three Pubs with in Shop Bookies .More like Vegas than dead end little estate .
Also Famous as the Dead Center of Dublin not Glasnevin ! Graveyards we had loads .Bullys Acre at lights in Kilmainhan ,Nuns had a Graveyard on Suir Road houses built on it now at back of Highbrasil .Goldenbridge first Catholic Graveyard in Ireland .Nuns had a Plot in Goldenbridge for themselves and Dead Orphand .Priests had a Plot in the Obolates Church .Prods had a Plot beside the Bank use to be a church another Graveyard on Inchicore road where the Church Spire is still standing and a graveyard in Bluebell .
Bookies and Graveyards .There is a Novel in there somewhere .Two certainties losing to the Bookies and Death .
Kilmartins had 5 shops not 45 in Inchicore !
-
--Extel the PA system used at the time gave off/results ....
Extel, now that's a term I haven't heard in many years, I will revert....
-
.... one later joined by Second ever Paddy Power ,Mecca ,Two Ladbrokes Trackways ....
You John M speak of 'Mecca' formaly known as 'City Tote' before they merged with "Never a Quarrel Joe" Coral, whom eventually mergered with Law Breakers, as if you know what you talking about ?
Mecca never had a presence in Ireland !
Prove me Wrong ??
-
--Extel the PA system used at the time gave off/results ....
Extel, now that's a term I haven't heard in many years, I will revert....
Those were the days.... men were men and men gathered in those dark, dirty, smoke filled mysterious wonders with blacked out windows and gathered round a speaker through which some burd relayed such exciting information as betting shows and stumbled through repeating course commentaries. One of my fondest memories was when the favourite was announced as the winner of a particular race in the UK prompting many men to join the payout queue... then after a few minutes had passed she says "correction to the result at..." provoking immediate, in some cases rather ill-tempered, disgruntlement. No explanation as to how or why she got it wrong! Another one was a somewhat inexperienced board marker's interpretation of being told through the speaker that there were no non-runners in a race at Navan. Navan (race time) they all go 7s was the message, the young lad's response was to chalk up a non-existent opening show with all seven runners priced at 7/1.... still managed to back a loser, albeit at a great price but a price the bookie probably wouldn't have stood over anyway as it was clearly an error... all good fun though!
Then came SIS audio followed by TV... it was all down hill from there... bright lighting, toilets, coffee/water machines, pretty burds behind the counter, etc...
-
I think there was a Mecca in Coolock Village, Ken... round the corner from Tom Floods... later became Stanley?
I remember when working in an Hotel up above in Dublin the burd on reception asked me if we had a room facing Mecca... Told her there was a Ladbrooks that way....
-
.... one later joined by Second ever Paddy Power ,Mecca ,Two Ladbrokes Trackways ....
You John M speak of 'Mecca' formaly known as 'City Tote' before they merged with "Never a Quarrel Joe" Coral, whom eventually mergered with Law Breakers, as if you know what you talking about ?
Mecca never had a presence in Ireland !
Prove me Wrong ??
Mecca had a shop in Dame Arch in Dublin Bought from Jim Walsh . I think Gerry Woodlock held the Licence for them ?Sure they had one in Inchicore across from the Horse and Jockey Pub .
-
Correct Rat--Fran ?????? cant remember surname --sold a shop on James st to them and then was their agent circa 1984/6--offered me decent cash for shops I had but on advice I refused regrettably --
Joe Jennings was on prowl then and took shop on Dorset St he had "dial a crash" Brian Carty as an advisor --always doomed !
Declan Fearon was head of Ladbrokes after selling out only to reopen in Ballyfermot, Windy Arbour etc
Savages in Swords controled the town with 3 shops --folded when Ladbrokes gave him 000000Ss
Lots of colorful characters then --
-
Was that Lennons on Jamses Street ? Across from Hospital ?He driving a taxi now same with Duffy in Clondalkin driving a Taxi .
-
Was that a Mecca or Stanley near Phibsborough crossroads with the NCR years ago?
-
Mecca I think ,on left heading for river --the four corners had a betting shop -Terry Rodgers, Steve Donohue and Coral I think ---all did well ex Mountjoy !
Mecca became Hills then Stanley--then Boyle
-
Was the Mecca shop not originally Peggy Crinions ?Terry Rogers had a fleet of Taxis he won off lads then he would rent them back to them so they could earn more money to lose ?
-
Correct Rat--Fran ?????? cant remember surname --sold a shop on James st to them and then was their agent circa 1984/6--offered me decent cash for shops I had but on advice I refused regrettably --
Joe Jennings was on prowl then and took shop on Dorset St he had "dial a crash" Brian Carty as an advisor --always doomed !
Declan Fearon was head of Ladbrokes after selling out only to reopen in Ballyfermot, Windy Arbour etc
Savages in Swords controled the town with 3 shops --folded when Ladbrokes gave him 000000Ss
Lots of colorful characters then --
Swords is still known as the town of Tinkers, Taylors, Lambs and Savages. Legend has it that Savage agreed to sell JCs supermarket to Dunnes Stores for a multiple of the turnover then stacked the place with cost price gargle for Christmas... Ben/Margaret allegedly read the small print and pulled out but they still put a drapery store on the front of JCs.
-
.... one later joined by Second ever Paddy Power ,Mecca ,Two Ladbrokes Trackways ....
You John M speak of 'Mecca' formaly known as 'City Tote' before they merged with "Never a Quarrel Joe" Coral, whom eventually mergered with Law Breakers, as if you know what you talking about ?
Mecca never had a presence in Ireland !
Prove me Wrong ??
Mecca had a shop in Dame Arch in Dublin Bought from Jim Walsh . I think Gerry Woodlock held the Licence for them ?Sure they had one in Inchicore across from the Horse and Jockey Pub .
I stand corrected, I never remember Mecca having a presence in Ireland but as so many others do then I will accept that I was incorrect.
-
...... I'd be interested in what you think about PP closing 28 shops. Is it simply that people are just happier gambling online these days?
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2025/10/15/almost-120-jobs-at-risk-as-paddy-power-closes-28-outlets-in-republic/ (https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2025/10/15/almost-120-jobs-at-risk-as-paddy-power-closes-28-outlets-in-republic/)
It would seem that Ladbrokes have gone the same way !
"More than 200 jobs at risk at Ladbrokes".
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2026/0331/1566089-ladbrokes-jobs/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2026/0331/1566089-ladbrokes-jobs/)
By 2010 the bookie game had all changed due to the online take-over, bookies who had paid huge money fer premises and licences or refurbishment costs were now looking at empty shops, But the bigger problem was the staff, most bookies who bought premises and licences also took on the staff and with "their Time kept on" they would be due very large redundany settlements if they were left go, so in most cases it was actually cheaper to keep the shops open and running at a small profit/loss than to pay staff redundancy.
Almost 20 odd years on now from the online take-over and a lot of the bookie staff would have retired or moved on and the bookies don't hire staff anymore, they close shops gleefully when they cannot staff them.
There are a few exceptions and there is still a handful of bookie shops that still do well, but unlikely you will find a customer in there under Fifty years old, so the Clock is Ticking on them too !