Irish Taxi Forum
Public Area => Taxi Talk => Topic started by: U Wha on January 07, 2020, 02:52:05 am
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Is there an appetite for a driver owned app?
Whistle torpedoed the opportunity a couple of years ago but this increase may create a space?
Just asking.
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Yep but it needs to launch next Monday.
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why does'nt the nta have their own app.
they already own our plates.
makes too much sense.
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why does'nt the nta have their own app.
they already own our plates.
makes too much sense.
Doubt if NTA would start up against an established private enterprise. FN would object to unfair competition due to NTA's dominant regulatory position. Might be no harm to print up and start a petition for same and present to NTA/TFI. A (semi) retired driver with no need of, or fear from FN would be the ideal candidate to front same.
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why does'nt the nta have their own app.
they already own our plates.
makes too much sense.
Agree that would be the best solution but it will never happen for the reasons stated by Bob Shillin.
I was sort of pissed off when Whistle fxxked it up because it killed the perception of trust in a driver owned entity.
But it just might have worked out for the better. I didn't agree with Whistles methods because I had my own idea of what would work.
So more than likely it may have been doomed to failure. Not because a driver owned app is a bad idea.
But its success would be determined by knowing what drivers actually need?
a) No apps at all? Never going to happen now.
b) State owned app? Never going to happen either.
c) Driver owned app that delivers value for taxi drivers.
What is that value? Less commission, more say and/or control.
Need to ask a lot of drivers, identify common needs and make the app deliver just that and keep on improving it with driver feedback.
Doesn't need to be a fancy app to start with as long as it functions. Creating awareness and trust in it is key.
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Your back with this old cherry .Have you ten Million to launch it .We drivers gave Hailo 2 euro per job in free PUC for years that could be as much as ONE HUNDRED MILLION of our potential earnings then 5 minutes FREE waiting time worth possibly another 20 MILLION of our potential earnings .You are wasting your time trying reinvent the wheel .So the answer to your question is stop wasting the internet ,and your time .
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What do you need millions for anyway?I dunno how you can't understand that a mass switch to another app could be done.The passengers will use whichever one gets them a taxi.
The reason flag isn't gaining traction is because they're pushing more card payments and Dave doesn't have the trust of drivers because of his previous involvement with Hailo.
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Flag was a ridicilous waste of energy .Their selling point was drunk students who had no cash could get credit for a taxi home .What driver wants to pick up drunken student scum .Hailo had the support of drivers when it launched any new venture would need the same support and the reality is if a few thousand drivers left FN the remaining drivers would take up the slack .The best we can do it try to claw back the work that Credit card payments affords us now that we must all accept card .Our selling point is we are there just stick out your hand dont waste time waiting for a driver who might be miles away to come find you .The apps have a place in the industry but we need to focus on all the work available on street and how to get more of that type of work back .
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That was my idea by the way Erm....you know the one about pushing our own card payments...dont bleeding ruin it by mixing it in with your own crazy..
But it should be done in conjunction with denial of service to Freenow and signing up to alternative apps.Even if it means using Uber/Flag.They have the systems in place so use it to hammer FN on their conditions.We don't have to stay on their apps in the long term.
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That was my idea by the way Erm....you know the one about pushing our own card payments...dont bleeding ruin it by mixing it in with your own crazy..
But it should be done in conjunction with denial of service to Freenow and signing up to alternative apps.Even if it means using Uber/Flag.They have the systems in place so use it to hammer FN on their conditions.We don't have to stay on their apps in the long term.
I expected more from you .Why would you support an alternative app and give them more Workcapture its less Apps we need not more .What you are suggesting is Appaparthied refuse to work for one app while promoting another Frankinstines Monster .Jesus Wept .
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Drivers and passengers are app addicts.Think of Flag/Uber/Taxy as a methadone programme until a better plan comes along.
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Have you switched from one provider of a service to another? (phone/energy/internet)
If no ... you're an idiot, if you did then why?
Why would a Free Now user switch to another app?
If you think they'd switch because it's operated by taxi drivers ... think again!
Most switch because the service is cheaper, but some switch because the service is better.
Why do people shop in the local butcher that's dearer than Tesco?
Why do people shop in Avoca?
If you plan on charging full whack, you'd better be providing quality or offering a local/niche product.
Personally I reckon a small group offering a close to metered fixed fare (preferably a meaty fare), to/from a set point/area to another is the best option (works for me) or possibly golf trips / tours if you have the correct personality/vehicle.
Set up / advertise and operate via Facebook for little or no cost.
see ya!
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Have you switched from one provider of a service to another? (phone/energy/internet)
If no ... you're an idiot, if you did then why?
Why would a Free Now user switch to another app?
If you think they'd switch because it's operated by taxi drivers ... think again!
Most switch because the service is cheaper, but some switch because the service is better.
Why do people shop in the local butcher that's dearer than Tesco?
Why do people shop in Avoca?
If you plan on charging full whack, you'd better be providing quality or offering a local/niche product.
Personally I reckon a small group offering a close to metered fixed fare (preferably a meaty fare), to/from a set point/area to another is the best option (works for me) or possibly golf trips / tours if you have the correct personality/vehicle.
Set up / advertise and operate via Facebook for little or no cost.
see ya!
Hello Martin .
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Meanwhile the rest of the fleet have gone back to work so they can pay 12% for a few more days.
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Its gas .after all the coming and going,and technical assments about apps,and dispatchers etc etc yis will finally realise what I have been saying all along was right .REINTRODUCED SIMPLICITY to the industry,get rid of all this unwanted technical shite,and let the punters just stick out their hands when they want a taxi.the dispatchers have complicated a simple business.punters only want apps because they exist.if they did not exist,people would not call for them.dispatchers complicated a simple industry,by introducing all this shitr
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The front-line troops are always the last to cop ze war is over.....
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Valid points from a few contributors, my STG£0.02 worth:
If lobbying NTA concentrate on PUC. The cost of base/app jobs has just increased by 25%. If we take the average fare as €12 the pro rata increase works out at €3 per job hence we need PUC increased from €2 to €5.
If making an app, keep it simple. You don't need a payment system just integrate Sumup and Revolut. Base it on Google Maps, it's cheap, easy and quick. Use AWS for server resources, it can be scaled up or down in a highly cost effective manner so you can put something together that, if unsuccessful, doesn't have to disappear but could hang around in the background doing little or nothing and costing little or nothing. Finally, don't think you're inventing something of value, you're not. Open source it... the whole lot of it.
Ideally what is required at this stage is what BS first suggested. An organiser. Maybe you could take on that role, UW? Whether your primary interest is to lobby NTA, lobby Free Now or devise a driver owned app the first thing you need is the support of drivers. There's no reason why a petition couldn't or shouldn't identify all 3 of those objectives as potential strategies. What I would suggest - and I'd be happy to help with the tech side - is a simple website inviting drivers to register their support for some or all of those objectives in one place.
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Don't want to sound presumptuous, but I'd say the only man for most of what you've suggested is yourself, Rats. Very few would have your command of the lingo and even fewer would have your patience....lobbying is not easy. I've no doubt being your own P.R. man would be key too.....so many potential banana-skins with the mouthpieces on here. John M might support you in the endeavour as a pillar of indubitable integrity....etc. I'd say it could be done if you can extend yourself 15 ways from Friday... not taking the piss......wishing you well or anyone as brave to take it on.
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No, it's not something I would be any good at. I don't suffer fools gladly and, as is evident from my criticisms of our many trade Unions and their inept bosses/enforcers/proprietors, I wouldn't be a unifying influence. Furthermore, I don't do social media. Someone who can bring drivers together is what's required, ideally someone who is reasonably articulate. Like I said I'd be happy to help with the project on the mundane background stuff provided it's focussed on the stated objectives.
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Reasonably articulate....maybe we could ask one of the Pakistani lads?
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Frank Byrne was great at the PR side but I'd say he got his fill of it... there was another lad (immigrant from the mainland) on a video of the Oireachtas Committee hearing that someone posted a while ago that struck me as being a cut above the norm...
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I'd have thought the artist formerly known as Spookie was perfect for the role? Some say he's active here....no idea. Either way, unity is a myth when there's no coal in the mine.
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Valid points from a few contributors, my STG£0.02 worth:
If lobbying NTA concentrate on PUC. The cost of base/app jobs has just increased by 25%. If we take the average fare as €12 the pro rata increase works out at €3 per job hence we need PUC increased from €2 to €5.
If making an app, keep it simple. You don't need a payment system just integrate Sumup and Revolut. Base it on Google Maps, it's cheap, easy and quick. Use AWS for server resources, it can be scaled up or down in a highly cost effective manner so you can put something together that, if unsuccessful, doesn't have to disappear but could hang around in the background doing little or nothing and costing little or nothing. Finally, don't think you're inventing something of value, you're not. Open source it... the whole lot of it.
Ideally what is required at this stage is what BS first suggested. An organiser. Maybe you could take on that role, UW? Whether your primary interest is to lobby NTA, lobby Free Now or devise a driver owned app the first thing you need is the support of drivers. There's no reason why a petition couldn't or shouldn't identify all 3 of those objectives as potential strategies. What I would suggest - and I'd be happy to help with the tech side - is a simple website inviting drivers to register their support for some or all of those objectives in one place.
Out of all of this that is the best suggestion I've heard. The puc needs to be increased, maybe €5 is a bit hefty but certainly somewhere between 3 and 4. Or maybe the puc is a percentage of the fare, like 20% or so. A fare of a tenner or under would incur a puc of €2, €10 to €20 fare us a puc of €3 and €20 and beyond is a puc of €4. That's just random numbers but for sure the puc needs to be increased to cover the increasing charges of picking a passenger up. As we're getting an increase soon, now would be the ideal time to lobby the nta to incorporate it into the fare increase.
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I'm amused at those who hardly work trying to influence those who do.
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Why do you allow a dispatchet to decide i you get a PUC or not ? Since I became a taxi driver,I have never seen an industry who have TOLTAL power to run that industry,but take delight in allowing a bunch of crooks (dispatchers) take that power from them.I have to ask the question the,is it that you are all institutionalised in a paye way of thinking that you cannot run your own business ? Sometimes I do be absolutely gobsmacked by the lack of initiative,or ambition taxi drivers show in running their own affairs
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Why do you allow a dispatchet to decide i you get a PUC or not ? Since I became a taxi driver,I have never seen an industry who have TOLTAL power to run that industry,but take delight in allowing a bunch of crooks (dispatchers) take that power from them.I have to ask the question the,is it that you are all institutionalised in a paye way of thinking that you cannot run your own business ? Sometimes I do be absolutely gobsmacked by the lack of initiative,or ambition taxi drivers show in running their own affairs
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Any news Dollyer on your procedure ?
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Divil a bit John,other then the news that the surgeon has the mary loo ,and therefore no op this week
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Divil a bit John,other then the news that the surgeon has the mary loo ,and therefore no op this week
I know what he's going through, I have the flu now for 3 days.
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Can't see the wisdom in seeking a PUC increase. FN will be around for a long time yet. More money for them and the hotels
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Base costs are directly attributable and restricted to base/app jobs. The monopolisation of that work by Free Now has increased the cost of it substantially... that cost can't be carried by drivers, we need to pass it on - on a pro rata basis. Market forces will determine if it equates to more or less money for dispatch firms. Demand for those services ought to decrease as the cost of them increases, the point of equilibrium is largely dependent on how much the dispatch firms want or need to provide the service.
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You speculate that the public might return en masse to street hails because of a gigantic hike in pick up charges?
These corporates are monsters, permanent growth is in their DNA, how will they be able to continue increasing their percentage every few years. Serious competition is the only answer, or am I becoming a free marketeer? I have written to a traditional despatcher regarding all of them mounting a fight, but am not getting much enthusiasm within their group for it. "Niche" is what I'm hearing.
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Dispatch firms dont provide the service ,YOU DO .why in the name of christ do you ask permission of dispatchers for a PUC increase,the NTA at
Re the only people who can sanction this,not vinnie fukin kearns,noel ebb,or kellyom or F/N
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Not sure who you're addressing, DM but I have no intention of and haven't proposed asking any dispatcher for a fare increase, whether restricted to PUC or otherwise. My only proposal as far as an increase goes is that NTA should give us a pro rata increase. I'm going to study the taxi cost index to see if there's anything of relevance in that before contacting NTA, probably.
A 25% fare increase would, IMO, serve to reduce demand BS. That's not necessarily a bad thing as Free Now are blue in the face telling us they can't cover their work. As the increase would be directed at relevant fares it stands to reason that a lot of those clients will snail hail instead of eHailing.. they might even hold out for a car that accepts cards, who knows?
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I suppose rat,im thinking of the times the dispatchers would not allow drivers to charge PUC,and I immediately thought WHO THE FUKK DO THESE CUNTS THINK THEY ARE TO DIRECT TAXI DRIVERS BUSINESS FOR THEM .I suppose it all stemsfrom my hathered for these people
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Part of the T&Cs I guess... well, not when Hail0 started but after they had enough to be able to afford to lose the upstarts...
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Whistle again anyone?
The fat bauld guy captain cabbage with 50 plates about
Wheres he now?
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Collecting rent on his plates/fleet I guess.
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Whistle again anyone?
The fat bauld guy captain cabbage with 50 plates about
Wheres he now?
Captain Boyle, a darling man, a dear darling man! 8)
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Whistle again anyone?
The fat bauld guy captain cabbage with 50 plates about
Wheres he now?
Back driving a taxi, after changing his name to include his middle name
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It is a Jag, to be fair.
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It is a Jag, to be fair.
Bobby Chariot.
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Just a thought...
Rather than taxi drivers try to run an app or call centre.
Maybe the drivers could become organised in some fashion, a co-op or association.
With enough mass they could develop/control/own the app.
At that point they contract or tender out the operation of the service to a independent call centre operator, because that is what they they are good at.
Similar to Transdev operating the Luas or GoAhead Buses operating routes for the State.
A profit is built in to the contract but the policies and direction will be decided by the drivers.
Rules out any start up money and or drivers trying to run a call centre and app.
Drivers would self promote tpo get the word out.
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Why would you develop something and then contract it out to a commercial firm?
Drivers have self-promoted several firms including Whistle, Flag and Taxy with little or no success. Flag and Taxy have invested in marketing with little or no success. As long as clients can get a car from Free Now they will continue to use it. To be fair to Free Now it is still allocating a significant proportion of it's work to licensed taxis in Ireland and despite it's requirement to align our commission with that charged by the UK parent company - who's introductory rate is 24% - we are still only paying 15%. Of course, full alignment will come but at least we know that now. What we don't know is if and when regulation will permit Free Now to launch it's P2P rideshare brands in Ireland.
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You speculate that the public might return en masse to street hails because of a gigantic hike in pick up charges?
These corporates are monsters, permanent growth is in their DNA, how will they be able to continue increasing their percentage every few years. Serious competition is the only answer, or am I becoming a free marketeer? I have written to a traditional despatcher regarding all of them mounting a fight, but am not getting much enthusiasm within their group for it. "Niche" is what I'm hearing.
Nicht is what I read!
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Just a thought...
Rather than taxi drivers try to run an app or call centre.
Maybe the drivers could become organised in some fashion, a co-op or association.
With enough mass they could develop/control/own the app.
At that point they contract or tender out the operation of the service to a independent call centre operator, because that is what they they are good at.
Similar to Transdev operating the Luas or GoAhead Buses operating routes for the State.
A profit is built in to the contract but the policies and direction will be decided by the drivers.
Rules out any start up money and or drivers trying to run a call centre and app.
Drivers would self promote tpo get the word out.
Any app would require commission to run it, as in base staff wages, lecky, rent, I.T., Advertising, Etc.
Taxi drivers would love and jump all over an app with no commission, but that won't ever happen.
As fer Unity amongst drivers, I have seen more unity at a Rangers/Celtic match ?
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No, it's not something I would be any good at. I don't suffer fools gladly and, as is evident from my criticisms of our many trade Unions and their inept bosses/enforcers/proprietors, I wouldn't be a unifying influence. Furthermore, I don't do social media. Someone who can bring drivers together is what's required, ideally someone who is reasonably articulate. Like I said I'd be happy to help with the project on the mundane background stuff provided it's focussed on the stated objectives.
I too think that if anyone was to take it on then you Stephen would be the best at it, with a PR team and a social media team behind you, but even at that it would still be the Poison Chalice. With the suggested Free commission, whom is supposed to pay your wages ?
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He'd be too fukin busy watchin the darts,snooker,down hill slalom and smokin 60 johnny blue a day to commit!!
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If that's all I done I'd miss the cricket, Hal.
I'd favour a monthly or annual subscription to cover costs, Ken. However, I don't see how the current status quo can be broken. Taxy are having a go with a little success. Flag had a go. Why would a non-commercial player fare any better?