Author Topic: RODENT English Please  (Read 1847 times)

john m

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RODENT English Please
« on: December 20, 2020, 10:13:36 am »

Hugh O'Connell

December 20 2020 02:30 AM

A row over the Government's decision to retrospectively tax the Covid-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment (PUP) led to Sinn Féin and other opposition TDs voting against a €30-a-week tax cut for people who lost their jobs as a result of the pandemic.

Fianna Fáil Minister of State Seán Fleming has criticised opposition parties for their decision to vote against allowing PUP recipients to use tax credits to offset their liability, but Sinn Féin and Labour said this was deflecting from the controversial decision to retrospectively tax the PUP.

The payment for those who have lost their jobs as a result of Covid restrictions was originally introduced on March 13 as an urgent needs payment, making it exempt from income tax under the Social Welfare Act.

The payment was put on a statutory footing in August and, like other core social welfare payments, was made liable for income tax. But the decision to apply this retrospectively between March and August has been heavily criticised, including by the Free Legal Advice Centre, which has questioned whether the move is constitutional.


The Government included in Section 3 of the Finance Bill a provision to allow PUP recipients to use their employee tax credits, or the earned income tax credit, to offset their tax liability.

But the decision by Sinn Féin, Labour and other opposition TDs to oppose that entire section of the bill, which passed through the Oireachtas earlier this month, meant that had the Government not won the vote, people receiving PUP would end up paying €31.73 in tax each week.

"I was genuinely surprised to see Sinn Féin voting to increase taxation on people in receipt of the PUP. Either they knew precisely what they were doing or they didn't understand what Section 3 of the Finance Bill was all about," Mr Fleming told the Sunday Independent.

However, Sinn Féin TD Pearse Doherty said: "This is a desperate attempt by Fianna Fáil to justify the retrospective taxation of hundreds of thousands of people who lost their jobs because of the pandemic."

He said Section 3 of the Finance Bill "involved Government going back in time and taxing this payment despite these laws".


"As a result, some PUP recipients will now face tax bills of up to €1,470. This is unprecedented, with concerns also having been raised by FLAC (the Free Legal Advice Centres)," he added.

"That is the issue which Fianna Fáil is trying to brush under the carpet. This Government has no issue with allowing banks and vulture funds to go without paying a cent of tax on their profits.

"But with this Finance Bill they made clear their intent to retrospectively tax a payment that was never liable to tax under the law."

Labour's finance spokesman Ged Nash said Section 3 of the Finance Bill was "predominantly" about allowing the Government to tax PUP.

"The difficulty is that what was initially an urgent needs payment has been transformed to something else to allow the Government to tax it. We understand and accept the principle that most social welfare payments are taxable. The difficulty we have here is the way we have done this, retrospectively.

"What I won't do is take lectures from Seán Fleming and Fianna Fáil about the treatment of working people. After all, this is the party that had no compunction to vote to slash the minimum wage by €1 per hour during the last crisis."

Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe has previously said the PUP was originally paid as an urgent needs payment because of the need to implement it quickly when the Covid restrictions began last spring, resulting in thousands of jobs being lost overnight.

He said that from the very start of the pandemic the Government intended that those payments would be taxed and treated in the same way as other equivalent social welfare payments.


john m

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Re: RODENT English Please
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2020, 10:21:56 am »
am I reeading this right .You just count your Puppy Dole as earnings and offset it against tax credits .......Fianna Fáil Minister of State Seán Fleming has criticised opposition parties for their decision to vote against allowing PUP recipients to use tax credits to offset their liability, but Sinn Féin and Labour said this was deflecting from the controversial decision to retrospectively tax the PUP.

The payment for those who have lost their jobs as a result of Covid restrictions was originally introduced on March 13 as an urgent needs payment, making it exempt from income tax under the Social Welfare Act.

The payment was put on a statutory footing in August and, like other core social welfare payments, was made liable for income tax. But the decision to apply this retrospectively between March and August has been heavily criticised, including by the Free Legal Advice Centre, which has questioned whether the move is constitutional.


The Government included in Section 3 of the Finance Bill a provision to allow PUP recipients to use their employee tax credits, or the earned income tax credit, to offset their tax liability.


This non story story is that If the Shinners and Labour had their way we would have to pay tax on our Puppy coin as a stand alone tax because they wanted to make the Government look like cunts .

Offline Octavia1

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Re: RODENT English Please
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2020, 10:57:44 am »
It wasnt the shinners who braut the tax tingy in they not in government so wat yu mean ? 
Ide rather be a poor master than a rich servant

john m

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Re: RODENT English Please
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2020, 02:09:48 pm »
It wasnt the shinners who braut the tax tingy in they not in government so wat yu mean ?

Government were going to give extra 30 euro tax credits per  week  to everybody to offset the tax costs but the Shinners and Labour were not having it .so the government  put a new line into the finance bill..The Government included in Section 3 of the Finance Bill a provision to allow PUP recipients to use their employee tax credits, or the earned income tax credit, to offset their tax liability...In reality the Shinners and Labour voted against tax free increases for all .I think the point they are trying to make is given a chance to vote for tax cuts labour and the shinners didnt .Reading between the lines Government wanted to tax the PUP and by giving everybody an increase in tax credits they were giving a bit to those who Leo said get up to go to work in the morning .Sort of interesting to see some real politics going on not just name calling Next Government will be sF/Labour almost certainty and its going to be a tax and spend government .Shinners have already decided who is going to pay the Bill for Covid Coin and unlike FF/FG who put the boot in on the poor they are going to squeeze the squeezed middle classes a bit more .This is the first stone in the Next battle SF will increase income tax probably lower the celing for higher rate and increase property taxes .Strange article to put in the Sunday Paper the week before Christmas unless the Cabbages are going to split over that CEPA shit and a shock election early next year ..Bottom line for us is we can write off the Puppy Dole as earnings against our Credits and not have it taxed separately.

john m

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Re: RODENT English Please
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2020, 02:53:03 pm »
Rodent you understand the tax code better than most .If the Covid Coin couldnt of be taxed as welfare and couldnt of be taxed as earned income .Were the Government trying to introduce another type of taxable stream by the back door ?bit like PRSI and Social Charge .

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Re: RODENT English Please
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2020, 12:41:14 pm »
Much ado about very little, erm. If you have earned income during any tax year you qualify for the earned income credit. Similarly you qualify for the PAYE credit if you had PAYE income... but you can't claim both, PAYE taking precedence. Possible implications if earned/PAYE income is less than the relevant "allowance" or grossed up credit. In that case, if puppy dole isn't classified as earned income, the excess allowance available cannot be offset against the same.
If it doesn't have a roof sign and door stickers it's not a taxi.

john m

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Re: RODENT English Please
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2020, 12:45:01 pm »
Much ado about very little, erm. If you have earned income during any tax year you qualify for the earned income credit. Similarly you qualify for the PAYE credit if you had PAYE income... but you can't claim both, PAYE taking precedence. Possible implications if earned/PAYE income is less than the relevant "allowance" or grossed up credit. In that case, if puppy dole isn't classified as earned income, the excess allowance available cannot be offset against the same.

So your saying carry on  carrying on .If its earned income offset it if its not then you have nothing to offset .

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Re: RODENT English Please
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2020, 12:49:22 pm »
Essentially, yes. Earned income credit is a relatively new credit anyway... we weren't exactly crucified for tax before it's introduction.
If it doesn't have a roof sign and door stickers it's not a taxi.

 


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