Payback

[watty]

Dunno about that but - I not trying to wind you up - I'd love to see a link about the Constitution bit.

The current EU fight is about whether the EU should borrow the money collectively or whether the individual countries should borrow it themselves.  If they go collective, we could probably/maybe avoid putting it on the books so it wouldn't officially count towards our national debt.  A bit like public-private partnerships?

Every country in the world is fukked.  The UK is now borrowing directly from the Bank of England to avoid spooking the markets.  The Fed in America has turned the taps on and just pouring the money out the door.  If the rating agencies downgrade us (or Europe), they'll have to downgrade everyone.  So, now, we (the world) might all be grade A.  In 6 months, we might all be grade C.  If we are all in the same boat, we'll all get similar interest rates?

[john m]

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2012/39/eng/enacted/a3912.pdf

(2) The budget condition is that either—
(a) the budgetary position of the general government is in
balance or in surplus, or
(b) the requirement in paragraph (a) is not met only as a result
of exceptional circumstances and the failure to meet it
does not endanger fiscal sustainability in the mediumterm.
(3) The requirement in subsection (2)(a) shall be deemed to be
respected if the annual structural balance of the general government
is at the medium-term budgetary objective.
(4) The adjustment path condition is that either—
(a) the annual structural balance of the general government is
converging towards the medium-term budgetary objective in line with the timeframe set in accordance with the
1997 surveillance and coordination Regulation, or
(b) the requirement in paragraph (a) is not met only as a result
of exceptional circumstances and the failure to meet it
does not endanger fiscal sustainability in the mediumterm.



This is the bit that fucks us we cannot run a deficit unless we can hide it under the bed in a special purpose vehicle ....(b) the requirement in paragraph (a) is not met only as a result
of exceptional circumstances and the failure to meet it
does not endanger fiscal sustainability in the mediumterm.

MEDIIUM TERM means two budgetary rounds or two years .If our GDP /GNP falls through the floor and our Debt rises we will shatter the 60% debt Ratio and the deficite will be multiples of the 3% .Any banker or Bond Holder would immediatly demand payment as we have broken the Treaty .Now its up to the EU to bail us out or cut us loose

[john m]

You see the Problem Watty we actually gave values of 60% and 3% in the constitution instead of just stating in line with EU standards .

[Rat Catcher]

That's the FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY ACT 2012 not the Constitution. Surely the act could be amended like any other Act of the Oireachtas?

[john m]

That's the FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY ACT 2012 not the Constitution. Surely the act could be amended like any other Act of the Oireachtas?

its the 31 amendment to the constitution that is what we voted on .

[john m]

GERMANS just caved ....EU finance ministers have reached a deal on a rescue package for Europe, RTE News understands.

The plan will amount to up to €500 billion, a blend of low cost loans and credit lines, according to sources.

The breakthrough comes after finance ministers met a few hours ago, having failed to reach agreement in the early hours of Wednesday morning.

The plan utilises the EU's main bailout fund, the European Stability Mechanism (ESM), the European Investment Bank (EIB), and loans from the European Commission.

A further so-called "recovery fund" will be agreed later by EU leaders.

[Rat Catcher]

What does the 31st amendment say... exactly?

[john m]

What does the 31st amendment say... exactly?

If you lack the intelligence to read you wouldnt understand if I told you look for a LINK you muppett .

[Rat Catcher]

Just wondering why you posted the Act rather than the amendment is all...

[john m]

Just wondering why you posted the Act rather than the amendment is all...

Probably couldnt find a LINK .Didnt want to offend the Biro of Rightiousness or the arsehole that edits this crap .

[Rat Catcher]

Links are only required where material is copied and pasted from elsewhere.

[john m]

Links are only required where material is copied and pasted from elsewhere.

Oh sorry I didnt know that .Ill try to remember that in future .Your so nice for letting me know .

[Rat Catcher]

You're welcome.

[Rat Catcher]

In any event, you are wrong. The 31st amendment repealed section 5 of article 42, inserting the following in it's place:

Article 42A
1 The State recognises and affirms the natural and imprescriptible rights of all children and shall, as far as practicable, by its laws protect and vindicate those rights.

2 1° In exceptional cases, where the parents, regardless of their marital status, fail in their duty towards their children to such extent that the safety or welfare of any of their children is     likely to be prejudicially affected, the State as guardian of the com- mon good shall, by proportionate means as provided by law, endeavour to supply the place of the parents, but always with due regard for the natural and imprescriptible rights of the child.
    2° Provision shall be made by law for the adoption of any child where the parents have failed for such a period of time as may be prescribed by law in their duty towards the child and where the best interests of the child so require.

3 Provision shall be made by law for the voluntary placement for adoption and the adoption of any child.

4 1° Provision shall be made by law that in the resolution of all proceedings—
     i broughtbytheState,asguardianofthecommongood,for the purpose of preventing the safety and welfare of any child from being prejudicially affected, or
     ii concerning the adoption, guardianship or custody of, or access to, any child,
       the best interests of the child shall be the paramount con- sideration.
   2° Provision shall be made by law for securing, as far as practi- cable, that in all proceedings referred to in subsection 1° of this section in respect of any child who is capable of forming his             
       or her own views, the views of the child shall be ascertained and given due weight having regard to the age and maturity of the child.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2012/C31/mul/enacted/a31st12.pdf

[watty]

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2012/39/eng/enacted/a3912.pdf

(b) the requirement in paragraph (a) is not met only as a result of exceptional circumstances and the failure to meet it does not endanger fiscal sustainability in the medium term.

<snip>

I think the country, the EU & the rest of the world being on lockdown would count as 'exceptional circumstances'.  And the Govt gets to define what the 'medium term' is.

If the Govt wants to borrow a couple of billion, they won't let the law get in their way!