Irish Taxi Forum
Public Area => Taxi Talk => Topic started by: john m on February 03, 2021, 10:34:54 am
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I asked this before never got an answer .Does our Insurance Policy if you take out accident car replacement only refer clearly in writing that Accident is the only trigger to claim coin .Is it possible to claim if you are otherwise restricted from working you can claim the off road daily rate .Did the Government decide that taxi drivers could return to work to save the insurers .Has anybody got the Long Copy of their Insurance Policy and the EXACT wording of when you can activate that clause .I wonder why the Insurers are facilitating the reduction in taxi cover .
Today, Mr Justice Denis McDonald was asked by FBD's lawyers to delay delivering his judgement to allow submissions be made on a judgment due to be given in an appeal by the UK's Supreme Court.
That appeal relates to the English High Court's ruling in a case where that court was asked to determine if the pandemic should trigger pay-outs to holders of business interruption insurance policies.
What is the terminology in our insurance policy to trigger the Payment is it your business is interrupted and then what follows that ?
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Plenty of taxis working away.Even seeing the black lads working the Matter rank.That's new to me.
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Plenty of taxis working away.Even seeing the black lads working the Matter rank.That's new to me.
BLACK LIVES MATER! 8)
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Plenty of taxis working away.Even seeing the black lads working the Matter rank.That's new to me.
BLACK LIVES MATER! 8)
lol
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Plenty of taxis working away.Even seeing the black lads working the Matter rank.That's new to me.
Probably the only place with working people at the moment.
One-in-four people out of work amid latest Covid lockdown (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/one-in-four-people-out-of-work-amid-latest-covid-lockdown-40046343.html) (Indo)
- ONE in four people are now out of work as the latest lockdown pushed up unemployment.
- New figures today show that 25pc of the labour force are not working when those impacted by the pandemic are included.
- The unemployment rate for young people between 15 and 24 is 56.4pc compared with 21.4pc for those between 25 and 74.
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SAT, 06 FEB, 2021 - 07:30
GEOFF PERCIVAL
A good day for pubs, despite there being none open in which to raise a glass.
The fallout from the High Court deciding that FBD should, indeed, pay insurance to and compensate four pubs over the losses they have incurred due to the disruption caused by the Covid pandemic could be widespread and long-running.
Ultimately it could end up saving the pub trade, which has seen approximately half of its 7,000 premises around the country remain closed since last March, a number go out of business completely, and more than 50,000 of its workers placed on the pandemic unemployment payment scheme.
However, it also may be the tip of the iceberg which Sinn Féin has warned could be the insurance industry’s very own tracker mortgage scandal.
A wave of Covid interruption insurance claims and court cases are expected — regarding many sectors, and involving a range of insurance firms — in the wake of this case.
This was seen as a test case — focusing on the policies of the largest Irish-owned insurer in the State — and, as such, will act as a weighty precedent. The test case categorisation also meant the plaintiffs won’t be saddled with the legal costs; although, depending on who you talk to, there could be a row brewing in this regard too.
It has been estimated that the insurance industry could be hit with an overall Covid business bill of up to €20bn when the dust eventually settles on the pandemic crisis.
This will inevitably raise fears of higher premiums for customers across the board.
Learn more
Opposition parties — particularly Sinn Féin and People Before Profit — have said any prospect of insurers making losses this year, due to business disruption claims, should not be used as an excuse to put up premiums.
The full amount FBD will have to pay out to pubs will be determined later this month. FBD said it expects its overall costs to be “well within the range of considered financial outcomes”.
It had set aside €30m to cover losses from the case. However, analysts expect that figure to double at least, now that it has lost.
Either way, it’s bad news for FBD shareholders, as any decision on reinstating their dividend is likely to be put on the backburner probably until next year.
The insurer had planned on paying its shareholders €35m on the back of its 2019 financial performance.
Central Bank's role criticised
However, it has been the Central Bank’s role in all of this that has been perhaps most heavily criticised.
The regulator got it in the neck for not bringing the test case against FBD on behalf of the pubs, in the first place.
This was something the UK financial regulator did in a similar Covid interruption insurance case there, immediately removing stress, risk, and cost for the plaintiffs.
The Central Bank’s reaction was to remind firms to honour valid claims and pay them promptly, adopting a customer-first approach to resolutions. While it didn't bring the case, the regulator did mandate FBD to cover the plantiffs' legal costs, win or lose.
Industry groups such as the Alliance for Insurance Reform and small business representative body Isme have long called for the Central Bank to unburden itself and split its dual macroprudential/financial institution solvency mandate and its consumer protection mandate — to basically police the lenders and insurers, and let someone else care for the consumer.
A call for its consumer protection mandate to be farmed out to the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission has been made before, and is likely to be repeated.
Sinn Féin’s finance spokesman, Pearse Doherty, has asked the Central Bank to launch a formal business interruption insurance examination, similar to the tracker mortgage probe.
For nearly 12 months, Mr Doherty has been warning of the non-payment of valid business interruption claims, due to Covid, becoming Ireland’s newest financial scandal. In fact, he already views it as a scandal.
“The consequences for insurers that refuse or delay payment of valid claims for business interruption should be severe, with strict enforcement and heavy financial sanctions," he said.
"This examination should follow the structure of the tracker mortgage examination, with swift outcomes, strict enforcement, and heavy sanctions for insurer malpractice."
“It is time for the Central Bank to step up to the plate and defend the interests of policyholders.”
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Ill ask AGAIN does anybody have a Copy of the Terms and Conditions and WORDING of our Income Continuance Policy .Thats the extra policy cover we can pay for to Claim if we are off the road due to an accident .Does it clearly state due to an accident or does it state unable to work or what .I know we can claim for a replacement car or lost earnings .Just wondering what the actual wording is for Lost earnings .Publicans won their case on the Wording Im sure other Insured Industries will be reviewing the actual Wording of their Policies as well .
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Ill ask AGAIN does anybody have a Copy of the Terms and Conditions and WORDING of our Income Continuance Policy .Thats the extra policy cover we can pay for to Claim if we are off the road due to an accident .Does it clearly state due to an accident or does it state unable to work or what .I know we can claim for a replacement car or lost earnings .Just wondering what the actual wording is for Lost earnings .Publicans won their case on the Wording Im sure other Insured Industries will be reviewing the actual Wording of their Policies as well .
Surely the taxi unions and fleet owners would looking into this. We’ll hear soon
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Stupid thread anyway.Even if there was some miracle where your insurance to drive covered your earnings they'd be looking for tax returns to prove earnings.
So you'd be looking for compo on top of your covid payment.That's just greedy IMO.
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Wat they gonna doo Johnny....back date us 100 quid a day for nearly a year ???
They've takin out of me account of over 2000 even do I kept my part of the bargain an phoned them at the end of each month .....
Every time I phoned they say ...." oh our taxi section is busy or unavailable rite now I'll leave them a message yur not working an theyll put yu down as private an domestic.....
Thanks that's lovely.....
Then they take 250 out me account.....I've emptied so they cant take anymore an they havnt contact me yet .....
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Stupid thread anyway.Even if there was some miracle where your insurance to drive covered your earnings they'd be looking for tax returns to prove earnings.
So you'd be looking for compo on top of your covid payment.That's just greedy IMO.
I dont know Merch when I changed from Alliance to AXA they sent me a 5 or 6 page policy document Now I only get a renewal cert .I cant find the original .Included in the policy was NCB insurance and taxi meter and sign and then I think it was accident /Off the Road insurance I paid for .Im just wondering what was the wording of income protection .The insurance companies wont be contacting us unless we ask .It seems its not only those Pubs that had protection some restaurants and takeaways had the same provision written into their policies and they didnt know about it as the broker just added it in and charged for it .FBD have put aside about 30 Million to cover the losses they didnt reinsure with somebody else .The pubs will be assessed when the judges and accountants come up with an average or Quantum .Im sure pubs will be made an offer and if they dissagree they can go to court and appeal at their own expense .
Chances are we are not covered but you never know what the legealeeze used when writing policies might mean in a court .
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Think FBD and others will argue every case to lower payouts...Think premiums will increase all round for balance sheet purposes...Like FBD will inrease car premiums bysmall% and business premiums by % of claims made..We all pay.It was all our fault
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Think FBD and others will argue every case to lower payouts...Think premiums will increase all round for balance sheet purposes...Like FBD will inrease car premiums bysmall% and business premiums by % of claims made..We all pay.It was all our fault
Of course but as FBD insure most farmers im Sure the Farmers will get some sort of insurance grant .At the moment Publicans are getting Covid Coin and Income help for staff and compo from the Government .Doing better than we are .No compo for our business only PUP .
Im sure FBD will try to reduce payments for Pubs that could serve outside or serve food saying they were not effected .Or cut payments to publicans that altered their insurance when they were closed by removing public liability cover or injury .As I asked why were insurers so willing to let us change from Taxi to Private insurance .What part and cover did we abandon .Could insurers say the original policy no longer applies as you changed the terms and conditions .Let the arguments begin !
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I see your point there. I'll ask Mr.Murphy..TD for Tallaght...to ask Mickall Martian in the Dail next week
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I see your point there. I'll ask Mr.Murphy..TD for Tallaght...to ask Mickall Martian in the Dail next week
I suppose the Insurers would say Taxis were never stopped from actually working and the Government might say they even changed the Law to let us earn 480 a month .I wonder if the Insurance Companies will try sue the Government for Locking Down the Pubs while letting other businesses continue to trade and if the Pubs will be opened sooner that we thought now that the White Powdered Wigs are involved .
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If we were paying enough tax we'd be on the higher rates of PUP.Best not to rock the boat.
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If we were paying enough tax we'd be on the higher rates of PUP.Best not to rock the boat.
I pay my correct tax .The reason im on the lower PUP is because of Car payments a new meter and decals .I changed my car unfortunately the year we were assessed on .
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Maybe that's the anomaly we need to sort with revenue and welfare rather than chasing insurance companies through the courts then getting told to feck off.
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If yur business is down cause of an accident caused by someone else ....dont yu get paid by the " someone elses " insurance? The downtime money I mean Wats this got to do wit antin ?
Ah here I'm going back to bed ::sleep
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https://www.axa.ie/axa-insurance-downloads/ (https://www.axa.ie/axa-insurance-downloads/)
You can download their taxi T&C's at the link above. There's about 5 different T&C's going back to 2016.
I never understand these docs but I don't see anything about them paying us a daily rate if our taxi is damaged etc. There is this under 'Fire and theft' & it's in all the docs going back to 2016:
What’s not covered
1. Losses you sustain through not being able to use your vehicle (including the cost of hiring another vehicle).
And just in case you were wondering, we're not covered if the taxi is damaged by radioactivity or an act of war!
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https://www.axa.ie/axa-insurance-downloads/ (https://www.axa.ie/axa-insurance-downloads/)
You can download their taxi T&C's at the link above. There's about 5 different T&C's going back to 2016.
I never understand these docs but I don't see anything about them paying us a daily rate if our taxi is damaged etc. There is this under 'Fire and theft' & it's in all the docs going back to 2016:
What’s not covered
1. Losses you sustain through not being able to use your vehicle (including the cost of hiring another vehicle).
And just in case you were wondering, we're not covered if the taxi is damaged by radioactivity or an act of war!
I'd a claim in 2010 the accepted per day payment was €75.00
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Thats sort of the point I was making Watty {1. Losses you sustain through not being able to use your vehicle (including the cost of hiring another vehicle}.Dear Mr Axa due to government directive on Social Distancing I was not able to use my vehicle ..Remember Pubs being locked down was not a Law but a Government Health Directive .
It dosent say what reason you cannot use your vehicle just that you cannot use it ?
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But you're classed as an essential service John and not exempt from working unlike pubs/restaurants who have been directed to close....take a court case and see what happens.
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But you're classed as an essential service John and not exempt from working unlike pubs/restaurants who have been directed to close....take a court case and see what happens.
Hal did you ever wonder why in the Last Budget Taxi drivers got their own bit .They were allowed earn .Any chance we had of Claiming we could not work due to Government Guidelines was undermined when Taxi Industry Reps asked for Special treatment .Be interesting to see what other industries make insurance claims .
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At the beginning of his 214-page judgment, Justice Denis McDonald said he was “struck, quite forcefully” by the realisation that people who take out insurance might never truly know what they are signing up for.
The pubs-versus-FBD case shows how any policy is open to interpretation, after four business owners were forced to spend 11 days in the Commercial Court arguing the meaning of everyday words.
Chris Kelly, owner of Sinnotts Bar, said in his evidence that the policy was in “simple English”, but this detailed judgment shows nothing is straightforward with the English language when it comes to insurers parting with money.
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I'd a claim in 2010 the accepted per day payment was €75.00
The docs in the link I quoted start at 2016. Maybe nothing's changed or maybe something changed between 2010 and 2016? I don't know 'cause I never understand these docs.
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I'd a claim in 2010 the accepted per day payment was €75.00
The docs in the link I quoted start at 2016. Maybe nothing's changed or maybe something changed between 2010 and 2016? I don't know 'cause I never understand these docs.
Prior to the economic crisis it was €90.
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I'd a claim in 2010 the accepted per day payment was €75.00
The docs in the link I quoted start at 2016. Maybe nothing's changed or maybe something changed between 2010 and 2016? I don't know 'cause I never understand these docs.
Prior to the economic crisis it was €90.
Nothing like a crisis for some companies to profit from.
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I wont be writing to the Insurance ombudsman but I would hope some of the Professional bodies or Professional Dispatchers would employ a legal expert to ask the Insurance ombudsman to review and determine the meaning and legal status of our Insurance .No need to go to court .I spoke to a fella in the insurance industry and he says that most insurance companies changed the wording of some policies that were renewed after April and that was part of the FBD case that some policies were not amended after renewal so the old terms and conditions covering outbreaks of Dizzease were still valid .He says the original provision was meant to insure pubs against local lockdown mainly involving local foot and mouth outbreaks where local lockdowns were employed and a radius of 25 Km around it .That was what FBD were trying to say that as it was not a local lockdown it was not covered by the policy .He asked did I get a Booklet or policy statement with my renewal or just a renewal certificate .He said if there was a Fundamental change in what was covered we should of been made aware .
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I'd a claim in 2010 the accepted per day payment was €75.00
The docs in the link I quoted start at 2016. Maybe nothing's changed or maybe something changed between 2010 and 2016? I don't know 'cause I never understand these docs.
Prior to the economic crisis it was €90.
Nothing like a crisis for some companies to profit from.
That was an acceptable figure between insurance companies and taxi companies/unions that did tax returns!
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More than 400 restaurants could be represented at the High Court within days as they seek compensation from 12 insurance companies as a result of Covid-19.
A solicitor acting for the restaurants has written to the insurance companies in the wake of the landmark FBD case last Friday.
The High Court had ruled four pub owners were entitled to compensation by insurer FBD for the disruption to their businesses during the pandemic.
FBD has disputed the claims and argued the closures did not take place as a result of an outbreak of disease at the premises or areas where the pubs are located.
Adrian Cummins, CEO of the Restaurants Association of Ireland (RAI), said legal advisors had reviewed hundreds of policies on behalf of its members.
Solicitors had now written to 12 insurance firms seeking “immediate” interim business interruption payments and confirmation of indemnity.
“We had to wait before issuing (the letter) to 12 insurance companies on behalf of 423 businesses,” Mr Cummins said.
“Since Friday we have received more and more policies coming into the association.
“Any policy we have received, we have sent to our legal team to analyse.
“The letters issued to the 12 insurance companies state that if they don’t respond within seven days of last Friday’s date, with confirmation of indemnity and interim payments, we’ll go to the High Court.
“We want the insurance companies to do the right thing in light of the FBD case.”
Mr Cummins said from April and May, last year, a number of insurance companies said restaurants were not entitled to compensation during the pandemic.
“But the game has changed totally due to the FBD case - it’s set a precedent,” he added.
“We believe if you have contained in an insurance policy, business interruption for a business being closed down, it’s possible to seek recourse.”
Mr Cummins said compensation was “hugely important” practically and ethically.
“First of all it’s the principle,” he said. “If you pay X to receive Y, it is fitting that’s what takes place.
“The insurance companies, however, decided the policy holders paid X and got zero.
“All the insurance companies have a major credibility problem. Businesses entered into a contract and paid policies for years and years and then Covid arrived and the insurance companies stuck their heads in the sand and tried to deny their responsibilities.
“That’s wrong and it has to be corrected. They need to pay up and quickly.”
Last Friday Mr Justice Denis McDonald found a policy sold by FBD covered losses four pubs endured when they were forced to close due to Covid-19.
The judge did not agree with FBD’s interpretation of its policy. He stated cover is not lost where the closure results from a nationwide outbreak of the disease, provided there is an outbreak within the 25-mile radius and that outbreak is one of the causes of the closure.
He added that the losses would be dealt with at a later date. The four publicans took the case after FBD Insurance Plc refused to indemnify them.
They also went to court due to the insurance company’s stance that its policies of insurance did not cover the disruption caused to businesses by Covid-19.
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A pandemic....in our lifetime....shur that'll never happen!!