Irish Taxi Forum
Public Area => Taxi Talk => Topic started by: John m on April 17, 2023, 07:12:23 am
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No real evidence against him .Recording s were gained illegally even the Judges said that .The Only evidence was offered by Dowdall .The one thing that stands out in this Trial was Dowdall naming other people as murderers that were not before the court and the judges not ruling that as hearsay .We all know Dowdall was originally charged with Murder because he got the room ..BUT is that all he done was he actually there or even one of the Shooters .Remember he got a Rats deal and had a Murder Charge Dropped .What evidence was there against him we will never hear .
If the Judgement is made on the heard evidence Gerry gets found Not Guilty .If Dowdall was more involved and the Judges Know it he could be fucked .If Justice is meant to be seen to be done we have not seen enough evidence .I think he walks .But what else did judges know about Dowdalls involvement ?
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The prosecution case for a conviction for murder
A court artist sketch of Gerry 'the Monk' Hutch
1. The prosecution says Gerard Hutch was one of two gunmen disguised in tactical gear who shot the Kinahan Cartel member David Byrne in a "brutal and callous execution" as the victim scrambled on the ground of the Regency Hotel amongst "complete carnage" on 5 February 2016.
2. Its main witness, the former Sinn Féin councillor Jonathan Dowdall, says he and his father handed Hutch the keycard to a room at the hotel used by one of the gunmen the night before the murder of David Byrne.
3. Dowdall says that Hutch subsequently admitted to him that he had been involved in the murder when he met him at a park in Ellenfield, Whitehall in Dublin.
4. Secret Garda recordings between Gerard Hutch and State witness Jonathan Dowdall show the prosecution says, that Gerard Hutch had authority over the three AK-47 rifles used in the Regency attack and was looking for help in diffusing the aftermath of the very serious situation that developed. The men drove north to meet dissident republicans to ask them to mediate in the murderous Hutch Kinahan feud.
5. Hutch was recorded talking about the movement of the weapons at a crucial time in which they ultimately ended up in transit. He refererred to them as "these three yokes". They were found by the gardaí in the boot of convicted IRA man Shane Rowan's car two days later.
6. The prosecution says it is apparent from the audio recording that "a plan is being formed as a way to hand over these three 'yokes'. Mr Hutch can be heard telling Dowdall that "these three yokes, we're throwin them up to them either way". The prosecution says this is a reference to giving the three assault rifles used in the Regency Hotel attack as "a gift" to the dissident republicans in the north.
7. The prosecution referenced a part in the recordings where Dowdall said to him "you never admitted to them that was anything to do with yous and Hutch responds by saying "Yeah, he knows yeah". It says this was "clearly an admission" by Gerard Hutch.
8. The prosecution says there was "no denial or pushback" from Hutch in the secret recordings against implications that he was centrally involved in the Regency attack.
9. Gerard Hutch's responses to Dowdall in the audio show at worst a tacit acceptance of his central involvement in the Regency attack, the prosecution says and that "in truth" it was almost an expression of pride in the choice of the weapons.The absence of a denial the prosecution says, is an acknowledgement that he was part of the team at the Regency and doesn't demure from the fact that it would be a lie to say he never did the Regency.
10. The prosecution accepts that its key witness Jonathan Dowdall is a man with a "serious conviction" for a "disgusting" separate crime but that did not mean the judges could not believe his claim that the accused had confessed to the killing. Dowdall was sentenced to ten years in prison for falsely imprisoning and "waterboarding" a man who he suspected was a fraudster when he came to his home to buy his motorbike.
The defence case for an acquittal of murder
Gerard Hutch
1. The defence position is that Jonathan Dowdall told "two big lies" to the court in his direct evidence, namely that Gerard Hutch had collected a key card for a room at the Regency Hotel from him and his father on Richmond Road on 4 February 2016 and that Hutch had "confessed" to him in a park several days later.
2. Jonathan Dowdall is, the defence says, "a proven and admitted liar and perjurer". The prosecution case stands or falls on whether the Special Criminal Court can believe his evidence.
3. The defence says that Jonathan Dowdall is also a "master manipulator" who decided he would give evidence against Mr Hutch to get his own charge of murdering David Byrne dropped.
Court artist sketch of State witness Jonathan Dowdall
4. The only evidence against Gerard Hutch, besides Dowdall's "flawed" testimony, is eight hours of secret Garda recordings of conversations between Hutch and Dowdall in which the prosecution alleges the accused made tacit admissions about his role in the shooting at the Regency Hotel. There is no "unambiguous admission to involvement in the Regency anywhere" in those recordings.
5. There are, the defence says, however lots of references in those recordings that contradict the prosecution's case.
6. There are numerous references in the recordings where a court could conclude that the 'Hutch gang' was involved in the Regency attack, but the defence says "the Hutch gang cannot be equated with Gerard Hutch".
7. The prosecution claims Gerard Hutch had control over the guns used in the Regency attack and that he was going to gift them to the dissident republicans but "News flash", the defence says, "Mr Hutch isn't charged with firearms offences; he is not charged with possession of firearms. The prosecution had a choice of what charges to bring and they chose what charges to bring". Gerard Hutch faces one charge of murder.
8. The defence says that much of what is in the recordings could in fact amount to Gerard Hutch getting involved after the Regency attack "to try to deal with the fallout". They could suggest he travelled north to speak to republicans "to try to find an alternative to more bloodshed". There was talk of "mediation and peace talks" and that Gerard was "somebody to stand and be guarantor for the extended Hutch family".
9. The defence conceded that there were "arguably things said and discussed" in the recordings that "could suggest serious criminality on the part of Gerard Hutch". But Hutch is not charged with conspiracy to commit crimes and the prosecution has "nailed its colours to the mast" by charging Mr Hutch with murder.
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The cynic in me says the SCC exists to give the 'right' verdict so 'Guilty'.
But, reading the newspapers, a lot of the evidence seems to be Hutch (bad guy) hangs around with bad guys so...nudge nudge... he must be guilty :-X Edit: I'm not sure a jury would find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
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Unanswered questions:
1. Why no Guards at boxing weigh-in?
2. What about the suicide of the Ballymun senior Guard?
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Watty here is My take on it .Dowdall was charged with Murder .What was his full involvement .If he said to the DPP when he got his deal .I was there I was the Lookout or something else then he was in a position to name the other three Shooters .His involvement was great .I can never ever remember in a Murder Case that a witness was allowed to Name other people not before the Courts as Murderers and it was not ruled as hearsay and struck off the record .
IF the Special Criminal Court does Convict Hutch on Dowdalls evidence they have accepted that the other three are also guilty .How can they ever get a fair trial if the court has already accepted Dowdalls evidence .The Prosecution in those Cases could Call the Special Criminal Court as a Withness to say why they accepted the Evidence of Dowdall .I personally think it would be a great misscarrage of justice to find him guilty .Is he Guilty ?but is there enough evidence put before the court for the Citizens of Ireland to have confidence in a Guilty verdict and the fairness of the Judicial System ?I personally say No .The verdict will be Unproven .The Court will issue possibly a big written Judgment and in the End they will say they had no way to test Dowdalls evidence as reliable and based on that they find Hutch Not Guilty .
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guilty.
if he's found not guilty it'll be an absolute comedy.
just like when the nephew walked when it was clearly him dressed as the woman shooter. the other two bowsies in the dock have'nt a leg to stand on either.
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One driver Guilty so far !
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two drivers guilty ......Dosent mean gerry is ??????? or does it
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FFS lads used their own Vehicles?Why ?
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NOT GUILTY .
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A terrible result for the Byrne Family but the Right result for Justice .
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when he came out the door of the courts he was lookin for his lift but there was nobody there to pick him up and he was walkin up and down being accosted by a junkie. wonder is it an omen.
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Doc Hutch was not the only one on trial here .The whole Judicial system was on trial .Supergrasses never work .Lazy Police Work .
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Interesting result.
Good to see that the taxi profession is capable of producing murder accomplices as well as drug dealers! We're a talented bunch :P
I'm paraphrasing but the judge said Hutch was charged with being at the scene and basically holding a gun. The judges ruled that the Monk and his family were definitely involved with the planning but it wasn't proven that Hutch was at the scene holding a gun. Opens the door for other charges maybe? Hope Hutch did his research and found a country that doesn't have an extradition treaty with Ireland...
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Interesting result.
Good to see that the taxi profession is capable of producing murder accomplices as well as drug dealers! We're a talented bunch :P
I'm paraphrasing but the judge said Hutch was charged with being at the scene and basically holding a gun. The judges ruled that the Monk and his family were definitely involved with the planning but it wasn't proven that Hutch was at the scene holding a gun. Opens the door for other charges maybe? Hope Hutch did his research and found a country that doesn't have an extradition treaty with Ireland...
Watty nobody knows what if any part he played .I bet there are Pubs full of Drinkers today relieved that Super Grasses are not going to be used .Both Hutch and Gilligan were found not Guilty in Super Grass Trials .I am delighted to see Justice in Action as it was designed Proof required .In the past I ran Football and Youth Clubs and Often went to Court with Youths who had no parent available or interested in accompanying them .I have seen kids convicted on flimsy evidence .But sending somebody to Jail for ever based on an Individual like Dowdall is a dangerous precident for Every Law Abiding Citizen .Dont forget there are Families of Dead Sons that were involved or caught up in this Saga and its them we should remember .
I have NO interest in Gerry or Enoch but I do have an interest in Justice .and Today was a good day for Judical Justice .
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Sidenote: I like how the Indo started it's profile of Hutch:
To borrow a phrase once used to describe another famous north inner-city personality, Gerry ‘The Monk’ Hutch was the “most cunning, ruthless and devious criminal of them all”.
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Neither.
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Sidenote: I like how the Indo started it's profile of Hutch:
To borrow a phrase once used to describe another famous north inner-city personality, Gerry ‘The Monk’ Hutch was the “most cunning, ruthless and devious criminal of them all”.
If that was true you might think .When Gerry and Dowdall were charged with Murder .Gerry says to Dowdall you turn states evidence get yourself a deal they want me not you .Then lie like a Cunt so they dont believe you .I get acquitted cant be recharged you get away with a few years and not life .Name the others who were there and they sort of get immunity by association .Then in two or three years I will meet up with you in Marakesh .We sell the Film rights and make loads of Coin .
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Ah Johnny but what's justice?
Did a drug run the other day. Guy was telling me his life story. He'd got a driving ban because he was sitting in his dad's car outside their house with no insurance etc. I said that was unfair. "Yeah", he replied, "in all the years I was robbing cars and getting the chase I never got a charge". 8) So for whatever reason he got a ban for his first offence. The Guards would see that as justice.
Then he said how his dealer disrepected him so he punched him straight in the face. Probably both of them thought that was justice. He still bought his drugs off the same dealer so no harm, no foul?
Today the judges didn't convict Hutch of murder but they left a few breadcrumbs for whoever wants to follow them. They said he & his family were involved but didn't pull the trigger. Could the Guards chase a conspiracy charge? Can the reporters now call him a murderer because of the Judges comments? Can the Kinahans continue to kill the Hutches because of what the judges said? Each of those 3 groups might call that justice?
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Did they not change the double jeopardy rule a few years back or was that just on the mainland?
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Could the victim's family sue Shin Fayne and/or Gerry Hucth / the Hutch OCG?
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Did they not change the double jeopardy rule a few years back or was that just on the mainland?
That was under the Old Queen .
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Ah Johnny but what's justice?
Did a drug run the other day. Guy was telling me his life story. He'd got a driving ban because he was sitting in his dad's car outside their house with no insurance etc. I said that was unfair. "Yeah", he replied, "in all the years I was robbing cars and getting the chase I never got a charge". 8) So for whatever reason he got a ban for his first offence. The Guards would see that as justice.
Then he said how his dealer disrepected him so he punched him straight in the face. Probably both of them thought that was justice. He still bought his drugs off the same dealer so no harm, no foul?
Today the judges didn't convict Hutch of murder but they left a few breadcrumbs for whoever wants to follow them. They said he & his family were involved but didn't pull the trigger. Could the Guards chase a conspiracy charge? Can the reporters now call him a murderer because of the Judges comments? Can the Kinahans continue to kill the Hutches because of what the judges said? Each of those 3 groups might call that justice?
i will just quote you the last line of my post {I have NO interest in Gerry or Enoch but I do have an interest in Justice .and Today was a good day for Judical Justice .}
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Could the victim's family sue Shin Fayne and/or Gerry Hucth / the Hutch OCG?
Leo will be spunking for months reminding Mary from the Navan Road it was one of her Gang that told Lies in Court and fucked up the Trial .
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Two Questions .An Innocent Man was detained for a year and a half in Prison .Does he get Compo ?
Who pays his legal fees .As he won will the taxing master have to pony up ?
Another Question Dowdall got 4 years for facilitating the Attack does this mean the two drivers will get the same or Less as they never Waterboarded anybody ?
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Two Questions .An Innocent Man was detained for a year and a half in Prison .Does he get Compo ?
Who pays his legal fees .As he won will the taxing master have to pony up ?
Another Question Dowdall got 4 years for facilitating the Attack does this mean the two drivers will get the same or Less as they never Waterboarded anybody ?
Hutch was very clever not to incriminate himself during the ten or so hours of secret recordings. Did you ever consider if he got the Billi-O from an insider?
Why did D.S. Colm Fox eat his gun?
Why did Hutch get into one of Mechanic 24's taxis?
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Gerry has the same birthday as meself ....plus its me second name ....gerry that is ...not hutch oops..... anyway im delighted he got off...
Sometin tells me the kinihans won't be so lucky atall atall ..its only a matter of time
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Leo will be spunking for months reminding Mary from the Navan Road it was one of her Gang that told Lies in Court and fucked up the Trial .
Well, that didn't take long: Taoiseach calls on Sinn Féin to provide more information on Dowdall (https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/0418/1377731-sf-dowdall/) lol
The Taoiseach has called on Sinn Féin to provide more information on its knowledge of former party councillor Jonathan Dowdall's actions, following the conclusion of the Regency murder trial.
He also remembered SF have a habit of suing people...
Mr Varadkar also said that Sinn Féin is not "guilty by association" with the former councillor, who is in prison for his involvement in the 2016 Regency Hotel murder.
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Leo will be spunking for months reminding Mary from the Navan Road it was one of her Gang that told Lies in Court and fucked up the Trial .
Well, that didn't take long: Taoiseach calls on Sinn Féin to provide more information on Dowdall (https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/0418/1377731-sf-dowdall/) lol
The Taoiseach has called on Sinn Féin to provide more information on its knowledge of former party councillor Jonathan Dowdall's actions, following the conclusion of the Regency murder trial.
He also remembered SF have a habit of suing people...
Mr Varadkar also said that Sinn Féin is not "guilty by association" with the former councillor, who is in prison for his involvement in the 2016 Regency Hotel murder.
Sinn Fein is the political wing of the Provisional IRA allegedly. Did Mary Lou McDonald not ask Jonathan Dowdall during the stringent vetting procedure Sinn Fein had in place if he had any ties with any other organisation, namely the New IRA?
Dowdall seems to have had good connections with known terrorists for a long period of time, given the taped conversation he had in his bugged car. Did he develop these relationships before or after, or even during his tenure on the Sinn Feín ticket? Hmm, strange days.
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The last thing the Monks brief did was request his "costs"--
Honestly I thought he'd be done as it was in SSC--
Reckon he didn't expect to be acquitted either-- as for a guy who has always planned ahead to be left stranded outside the Courts was a bit embarrassing especially with the family connection to our industry --
Lots of people gone awall since Monday I'd say ----
As a Northsider so glad my encounters with him were few and far between,with my family raised and gone there are things to be grateful for !!!
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The last thing the Monks brief did was request his "costs"--
Honestly I thought he'd be done as it was in SSC--
Reckon he didn't expect to be acquitted either-- as for a guy who has always planned ahead to be left stranded outside the Courts was a bit embarrassing especially with the family connection to our industry --
Lots of people gone awall since Monday I'd say ----
As a Northsider so glad my encounters with him were few and far between,with my family raised and gone there are things to be grateful for !!!
A wee bit funny seeing him getting picked up by an Indian in a PSV.ie rental taxi.
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Punter it was a Great Victory for the Garda outstanding couldnt of worked out better .I dont Believe Gerry was there and the Judgement was Correct .My BIG Question .Why was Dowdall allowed name persons not before the Court as the Gunmen and not ruled Hear Say ? The little bit of the Law I know is this is not allowed UNLESS ? Who drove the Squad to the Hotel in the van nobody has ever been mentioned .Was it Dowdall? Is that why the Judges allowed him name the Squad as he was part of it ,Not just a Key Holder but a Stake Holder .Remember he was originally charged with Murder not Facilitating a Murder like the other drivers ?
Now the Great Victory for the Garda The Hutch Family are now recognized as an Organized Crime Group and Irelands RICO laws can now charge and convice people for being members of this group as a Collective .There may be no evidence against alleged Shooters for shooting but there may be evidence of Group memberships .There are some serious sentences for being a Member of an Organized Crime Group just look at the members of the KOCG that are locked up .
Being designated an Organised Criminal Crime Group is a step up from being chased by Cab .Under CAB you lost your Coin as it was the Proceeds of Crime but now if they can prove your Crime is associated with a Group then They take your Coin and your Time .
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If what you say is true, it's a hollow victory for the Gardai. He was already semi-retired in Spain with his wife. His nephew (?) started it all by getting into trouble with the Kinahans.
Gerry Hutch was the only clever one who never touched the drugs & invested his money over the years. He settled with CAB back in 1999 so I guess any money from before then is off-limits. And he probably learned his lesson from that so any of his money/property after 1999 is probably registered in some Caribbean island under his pet dog's name!
His deceased taxi driving brother, according to the SCC, might have organised the hit at the boxing weigh-in but he was basically a taxi driver living in a Corpo house. But if the papers are to be believed, the rest of the family are mired in drug abuse and petty crime, they don't have any mansions or even bank accounts to seize?
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Think you have the Wrong Brother as the organiser Watty .There are Non Family Members of the Now recognised Crime Group it is not a Hollow Victory it is CAB gone Nuclear .Look at the KOCG members locked up for membership of the Group or old Republicans Locked up for IRA membership .It was a Massive win for the Garda and time will tell .Watch how the Circus Media will now refer to people as Alleged members of the Hutch Organised Crime Group .
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Read this WATTY and note the last sentence .This is why it was essential to say they are an ORGANISED GROUP .It has Legal Standing .... Ireland has its own laws regarding organized crime and corruption. The main legislation relating to organized crime in Ireland is the Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009, which provides additional powers to law enforcement agencies to combat organized crime. The Act provides for the creation of specialized units within the Garda Síochána (Irish police) to investigate organized crime and authorizes the use of electronic surveillance and interception of communications in certain circumstances.
There are also other Irish laws aimed at combating corruption, such as the Prevention of Corruption (Amendment) Act 2010, which updated previous legislation and created new offenses related to bribery, corruption, and influence peddling. Additionally, the Criminal Justice (Corruption Offences) Act 2018 provides for the prosecution of individuals and companies involved in corruption offenses.
It's worth noting that Ireland is also a signatory to several international conventions and agreements aimed at combatting organized crime and corruption, such as the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organized Crime and the United Nations Convention against Corruption.
.CAB couldnt look to repatriate you to claim your Illegally gotten gains but the Gards can look to extradite members of an ORGANISED crime Group .So nowhere to hide ?
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Think you have the Wrong Brother as the organiser Watty .There are Non Family Members of the Now recognised Crime Group it is not a Hollow Victory it is CAB gone Nuclear .Look at the KOCG members locked up for membership of the Group or old Republicans Locked up for IRA membership .It was a Massive win for the Garda and time will tell .Watch how the Circus Media will now refer to people as Alleged members of the Hutch Organised Crime Group .
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/gerry-the-monk-hutch-walks-free-from-court-after-he-is-acquitted-of-david-byrnes-murder-42435778.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/gerry-the-monk-hutch-walks-free-from-court-after-he-is-acquitted-of-david-byrnes-murder-42435778.html)
The judge said there was a reasonable possibility that the Regency was planned by Patsy Hutch and that Gerard Hutch “stepped in” in the aftermath as head of the family.
It's the FBI & not the Gardai/CAB that are gonna get KOCG. The Gardai are like an asthmatic teenager at a fight hiding behind his biggest friend shouting 'let me at em, let me at em.' Unlike the Kinahans, the Hutches never tried to go posh and stayed in the city centre. The best The Monk could do was move a mile up the road to Clontarf, FFS! They'll be happy with the extra clout any newspaper headlines give them?
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Like I said you mistook which brother MAY of organised the event .
Do you not get the Impact of designating them as being ORGANISED .It has huge legal implications in what it allows Gards do to detect them like bugging or surveillance .You also labour under the misapprehension that your name must be Hutch to be a Member or that there are not some very wealthy Intelligent people that MAY be involved with this Group .
IF a person had a CAB case against them lets say to sieze their watch and Gaff as proceeds of crime .They would not contest that Claim as that may open a Can of Worms and expose them to membership Status of any ORGANISED Group .Look at cab judgements how many people do not contest the Claims since the Law changed with reference to ORGANISED Crime Groups .CAB cases against CRIMINALS are mostly CIVIL cases to seize assets based on the fact that there is no Tax paid on the accumulation of assets which in itself is a Criminal Offence so the Assets are Criminal in Nature as no tax was paid .Few houses around where I live taken by CAB even though the tenent had no convictions .
Watch how this unfolds it is the Biggest Victory for Policing since CAB .Here is an example the Garda caught with the Wardrobe full of Hash is locked up .If they can prove he is associated with an ORGANISED Crime Gang his Gaff could be gone and he might be further charged now with being a Member or Associate of an ORGANISED Crime Gang .
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Like I said you mistook which brother MAY of organised the event .
My bad. I see Patsy, the potential organiser, is alive and the taxi driver, Eddie Sr, is dead.
Do you not get the Impact of designating them as being ORGANISED .It has huge legal implications in what it allows Gards do to detect them like bugging or surveillance .You also labour under the misapprehension that your name must be Hutch to be a Member or that there are not some very wealthy Intelligent people that MAY be involved with this Group .
IF a person had a CAB case against them lets say to sieze their watch and Gaff as proceeds of crime .They would not contest that Claim as that may open a Can of Worms and expose them to membership Status of any ORGANISED Group .Look at cab judgements how many people do not contest the Claims since the Law changed with reference to ORGANISED Crime Groups .CAB cases against CRIMINALS are mostly CIVIL cases to seize assets based on the fact that there is no Tax paid on the accumulation of assets which in itself is a Criminal Offence so the Assets are Criminal in Nature as no tax was paid .Few houses around where I live taken by CAB even though the tenent had no convictions .
Watch how this unfolds it is the Biggest Victory for Policing since CAB .Here is an example the Garda caught with the Wardrobe full of Hash is locked up .If they can prove he is associated with an ORGANISED Crime Gang his Gaff could be gone and he might be further charged now with being a Member or Associate of an ORGANISED Crime Gang .
We'll have to disagree on this one. The Hutches can't have been that organised (in the non-legal sense) if they had to call on Dowdall for help. And their neighbours in Ballybough etc where happy to rat them out when the Kinahans came calling with money. And it ended up with lots of dead Hutches/gang and 1 or 2 dead on the Kinahan side. They were organised (in the non-legal sense) whereas the Hutch side wasn't.
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Gerry has an Alibi so Paul Williams cant say the Monk did it ! Toronto airport £12million gold heist leaves police stumped as container disappears
The high-profile heist happened at Canada's busiest airport after a flight carrying the cargo landed at Toronto Pearson International on Monday evening rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
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The Hutch OCG was always inextricably linked to SF/PIRA with Gerry & co looking after "business" interests such as protection rackets, cab companies, narcotics sales, etc... hence calling on the likes of Dowdall was nothing unusual. In fact the Regency gunman who didn't bother with a mask was identified as a PIRA member. Arguably that's why a sure to fail prosecution was taken by the State. Might be a tad cynical but it seems to me that the powers that be were counting on a conviction in the first instance by instructing the judge to allow clearly inadmissible evidence (the recordings from outside the State) in full knowledege that Gerry would keep the (appeal) case going well up to the next general election with plenty of Hutch/SF OCG members names thrown into the public eye as the thing progressed.
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oh for fuck sake........
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0421/1378435-gsoc/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0421/1378435-gsoc/)
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Here is how justice works .A fella is found not Guilty of A crime and a Garda goes to the innocent mans party and Loses his Job .So Gerry not Guilty but the Garda is Guilty of Something .They are right Hutch is a Fucking Criminal Mastermind .Gets the Garda looking into the Garda that might of looked after Gerry sacked .That will knock that enquiry back a good few years .