Author Topic: tax for tax sake  (Read 3270 times)

john m

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tax for tax sake
« on: July 18, 2019, 02:26:16 pm »
THE proposed changes on how our cars are taxed will mean some motorists could win and some lose out if the government adapts the Tax Strategy Group (TSG) plan in the Budget.

The proposed measures seek to address a number of issues – all within the ambit of the government’s Climate Action Plan.

They include the need to encourage use of greener cars with lower, and more, VRT bands, treat lower-priced electric cars more favourably than costlier ones, hit diesel for its NOx emissions and deal with many used imports by increasing tax.

If adopted by government the likely winners and losers could fall into the following categories:

TAX BANDS

*An increase in the number and potential severity of tax bands from 11 to 14 for VRT and road tax is suggested.

Winners would be the lowest-emission car owners as provision is made for a new lower 7pc rate. Losers are those with cars emitting above-average or higher levels.

Encouragement to buy low-emissions vehicles is pronounced with the proposed new low rate: 7pc on cars under 51g/km. There would also be a new 8pc VRT band for cars between 51g/km and 80g/km.

In keeping with a stepped approach there would be a more expensive tax band for every 10g/km above the previous – all the way to 201g/km+ where a swingeing new 39pc rate would apply for drivers of gas guzzlers.

HYBRIDS

*One of the biggest surprises is the paper’s claim there is evidence that CO2 emission levels for conventional hybrids under the new WLTP emissions system could be significantly higher than under the current test system. It casts doubts on the “justification” for extending VRT relief for conventional hybrids (not plug-ins) as a result.

Losers could be, stress could be, hybrid owners losing €1,500 VRT rebate though there is bound to be a lot of debate about that as the likes of Toyota, the main hybrid seller in the country, would fight hard for retention on grounds of low emissions.

However, the report says the new lower VRT bands would greatly help balance the overall cost of purchase and ownership. So there could be winners too.

ELECTRIC

*Those hoping to buy an expensive new electric vehicle would lose out as the plan suggests a limit of €40,000 for the full €5,000 VRT relief on battery-powered EVs.

Stepped reductions after that would mean, as the plan says, that relief would cease at the €50,000 mark.

Again, the report argues that this would be at least partially balanced against the benefit deriving from the new lower 7pc band for cars with sub-50g/km emissions. As you know EVs have zero tailpipe emissions.

USED IMPORTS

*Those importing used cars could lose out too if the plan has its way. Cars with emission grades under the old testing regime (NEDC) would have their rating increased by 21pc and would be taxed accordingly. An alternative to this would be an EU sliding scale system. But either way import buyers lose.

SURCHARGE on NOx

*The plan proposes to replace the 1pc surcharge on new diesels with a new levy aimed at punishing NOx emissions.

Biggest losers could be diesel buyers - though petrol emits NOx too - as the levy increases costs though by how much is difficult to gauge.

Winners are, hopefully, the general public: NOx has been shown, in the longer term, to affect respiratory systems. With higher costs, it is expected fewer high NOx emitters would be bought.  The plan suggests a €5 per mg/km NOx – something like the system is operated in Norway. It would apply to all new cars and used imports.

CARROT AND STICK

*The plan stresses time and again that the VRT and taxation proposals must support the “environmental rationale” of them being imposed.

In other words, the tax has to have a positive effect in getting people to buy ‘greener’ cars. Invariably that means some motorists paying more and – hopefully - some paying less.

INCOME

*Significantly too, the plan seeks to stabilise or increase government income from motoring taxation. As more people have been buying reduced-emission cars, tax take has fallen. In that respect, the plan’s proposals are a balancing act between encouraging people to buy ‘green’ while taxing them for car ownership at the same time. Losers would be those stuck with high-emission vehicles if one of the plan’s options – to increase the gap between the most expensive band and the cheapest – is adopted.

Or they could widen the rate gap between each of the motor tax bands.

Or increase the gap between the lowest emitting vehicles and those with average/above average emissions.

Winners? The Exchequer.

TIME TO PREPARE

*Up to now, a sort of half-way-house system has been in operation which uses a formula to blend the old and new readings. Technically the full WLTP should be applied but the plan suggests not doing so until July, 2020 for new cars and used imports.

The report says: “In recognition of the lead-in time for dealerships ordering vehicles, it does not seem unreasonable that the commencement should be delayed until July 2020.”

Winners are vehicle importers who get a chance to order their cars for next July that are much more attuned to the new, proposed, regime. Winners too could be buyers who want to buy before the full impact of WLTP is felt. But it looks like the only way is up for prices so most people face losing something on price from this time next year.

One of the issues prompting change is the need to adapt to the new WLTP testing system just introduced. Because it is a more stringent test, it means cars have higher emissions ratings. That’s not because cars have suddenly started to emit more but because the new system is a truer reflection of the volume of harmful emissions coming out the tailpipe.

As you know, road tax and VRT are based on the emissions of new cars since 2008 so higher values will impact on price and cost.


john m

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2019, 02:28:28 pm »
*One of the biggest surprises is the paper’s claim there is evidence that CO2 emission levels for conventional hybrids under the new WLTP emissions system could be significantly higher than under the current test system. It casts doubts on the “justification” for extending VRT relief for conventional hybrids (not plug-ins) as a result.

john m

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2019, 02:31:37 pm »
*Significantly too, the plan seeks to stabilise or increase government income from motoring taxation. As more people have been buying reduced-emission cars, tax take has fallen. In that respect, the plan’s proposals are a balancing act between encouraging people to buy ‘green’ while taxing them for car ownership at the same time. Losers would be those stuck with high-emission vehicles if one of the plan’s options – to increase the gap between the most expensive band and the cheapest – is adopted.

john m

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2019, 10:17:36 am »
The price of new and used diesel and petrol cars will go up by as much as €1,000 under plans to clamp down on emissions.

Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe is being advised to dramatically overhaul the motor taxation system and to help squeeze out second-hand UK imports.

An Irish Independent analysis of taxation changes proposed by the Department of Finance shows it will hit the purchase price of vehicles from next July.

There are expectations of a rush to buy in the first quarter of 2020 to avoid the charges.

But even then, tens of thousands of motorists face higher running costs due to likely increases in motor tax and excise duty on fuel.

john m

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2019, 10:19:22 am »
An issue that will hit you in the pocket and not one comment .

Offline stonethecrows

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2019, 10:35:21 am »
OK so whether we drive or buy a Petrol or Diesel we are going to be screwed on purchase price and refuelling. Fact and probably fcuk all we can do about it.

But will our yearly Tax fee be affected i.e. at present its the same whether we drive a mini or a merc ?
He who fears he will suffer, already suffers because he fears.

john m

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2019, 10:47:14 am »
Tax free allowances has nothing to do with it .Your costs go up the more you work to cover your costs the more carbon tax you pay .Back of an envelope maths the Government will be hopeing to pocket at least 400 yoyoin extra taxes from every family Carbon tax on fuel/Gas.heating oil increase in property tax .You take extra money out of peoples pockets it trickels down to pubs,restaurants and us .Like Occi and Merc starting Monday im going to do dats nights on friday Saturday went out last night left Clondalkin at 8 oc with hailo on home by 10 didnt do a job couldnt get on to a rank with any prospect of work .Kids going back to school people are saving for books and uniforms and drivers are doing more hours .I dont know how a taxi driver could be the sole earner in a house

Offline mercenary for hire

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2019, 11:11:17 am »
Anyone buying a diesel will feel this more John.There's a lot of Elite Prius drivers on here who are already driving one of the most efficient vehicles money can buy.

Us Prius drivers are like the Delta force of the taxi fleet.We don't care if any fuel goes up a few cent.

Offline stonethecrows

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2019, 11:21:39 am »
Tax free allowances has nothing to do with it .Your costs go up the more you work to cover your costs the more carbon tax you pay .Back of an envelope maths the Government will be hopeing to pocket at least 400 yoyoin extra taxes from every family Carbon tax on fuel/Gas.heating oil increase in property tax .You take extra money out of peoples pockets it trickels down to pubs,restaurants and us .Like Occi and Merc starting Monday im going to do dats nights on friday Saturday went out last night left Clondalkin at 8 oc with hailo on home by 10 didnt do a job couldnt get on to a rank with any prospect of work .Kids going back to school people are saving for books and uniforms and drivers are doing more hours .I dont know how a taxi driver could be the sole earner in a house
John I'm talking Motor Tax Fee
He who fears he will suffer, already suffers because he fears.

Offline stonethecrows

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2019, 11:23:33 am »
Anyone buying a diesel will feel this more John.There's a lot of Elite Prius drivers on here who are already driving one of the most efficient vehicles money can buy.

Us Prius drivers are like the Delta force of the taxi fleet.We don't care if any fuel goes up a few cent.
Extremely selfish quote, but I understand fully and would probably feel the same if I drove one
He who fears he will suffer, already suffers because he fears.

john m

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2019, 11:23:43 am »
I dont do enough miles to worry about fuel costs but when you hear Paggo going on about overheating in the economy thats code for more tax to slow things down .The stench of 2007 is wafting down the streets Clondalkin Village is only open Friday and Saturday same for Tallaght .Plenty of peoople working but 10 yoyo an hour dosent allow for much discressionary spending .Neighbour working shift in a warehouse driving a forks on 12.50 an hour before stoppages he has two kids and she dosent work .The big tax increases will come on consumables like drink smoke fuel property motor tax  .Our debt to GDP is growing and Paggo needs to fool us into paying more tax .We are going like GB wages are solow a lot of people are outside the income tsx threshold so he needs to find a way to grab a coin off them.

The Liffey Lip

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2019, 11:25:13 am »
An issue that will hit you in the pocket and not one comment .

Letting on you give a bollix?.........this forum is the mainstay of those who can't get a word, or a look in, at home.........hence the need to self-repeat.

john m

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2019, 11:27:06 am »
Tax free allowances has nothing to do with it .Your costs go up the more you work to cover your costs the more carbon tax you pay .Back of an envelope maths the Government will be hopeing to pocket at least 400 yoyoin extra taxes from every family Carbon tax on fuel/Gas.heating oil increase in property tax .You take extra money out of peoples pockets it trickels down to pubs,restaurants and us .Like Occi and Merc starting Monday im going to do dats nights on friday Saturday went out last night left Clondalkin at 8 oc with hailo on home by 10 didnt do a job couldnt get on to a rank with any prospect of work .Kids going back to school people are saving for books and uniforms and drivers are doing more hours .I dont know how a taxi driver could be the sole earner in a house
John I'm talking Motor Tax Fee

the taxi road tax is not that much of a saving as most newer cars were on fairly low road tax based on emissions .The government now have a situation where reduced emissions lead to reduced tax for them so moving goalposts lash carbon tax on fuel that way everybody pays no matter what emissions are .

Offline mercenary for hire

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2019, 11:53:42 am »
Not one of yis caring about the price of Yorkies.Unbelievable.


john m

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Re: tax for tax sake
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2019, 12:12:37 pm »
Not one of yis caring about the price of Yorkies.Unbelievable.

Thats Truckdrivers

 


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