Uber drivers are workers

[watty]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56123668

Delivering his judgement, Lord Leggatt said that the Supreme Court unanimously dismissed Uber's appeal that it was an intermediary party and stated that drivers should be considered to be working not only when driving a passenger, but whenever logged in to the app.

The court considered several elements in its judgement:

- Uber set the fare which meant that they dictated how much drivers could earn
- Uber set the contract terms and drivers had no say in them
- Request for rides is constrained by Uber who can penalise drivers if they reject too many rides
- Uber monitors a driver's service through the star rating and has the capacity to terminate the relationship if after repeated warnings this does not improve

Looking at these and other factors, the court determined that drivers were in a position of subordination to Uber where the only way they could increase their earnings would be to work longer hours.

In Ireland, I'd say the likes of Deliveroo & Uber Eats etc will be quite nervous right now since out legal system is quite similar to the UK's.

[mercenary for hire]

There could easily be drivers on Freenow with faked IDs that haven't been found.

Uber never used private motorists in the UK.Private hire drivers are something different.

[watty]

Unlicenced taxi/PH driver = private motorist!

Uber loses London licence after TfL finds drivers faked identity

While TfL said Uber had since made positive improvements, reservations remained – including a change to systems that allowed unauthorised drivers to upload their photos to other drivers’ accounts. This security lapse resulted in at least 14,000 trips - involving 43 drivers – where someone other than the booked driver picked up passengers, TfL said.

Uber stripped of its licence to operate in London over safety concerns

“Safety is our absolute top priority. While we recognise Uber has made improvements, it is unacceptable that Uber has allowed passengers to get into minicabs with drivers who are potentially unlicensed and uninsured.  “It is clearly concerning that these issues arose, but it is also concerning that we cannot be confident that similar issues won’t happen again in future.”  TfL found that at least 14,000 trips were made with drivers who were different to the ones shown on the app.  This was due to a system change enabling unauthorised drivers to upload their photographs to legitimate Uber driver accounts, the transport body said.  All of these journeys were uninsured and some took place with unlicensed drivers, including one who had previously had their licence revoked, TfL added.

Uber loses its London license as regulator cites a ‘pattern of failures’

One particular issue that was identified was a change in Uber’s system that “allowed unauthorised drivers to upload their photos to other Uber driver accounts.”  This enabled other Uber drivers to pick up passengers as if they were booked with the original driver, and TfL says this occurred during at least 14,000 trips. “This means all the journeys were uninsured and some passenger journeys took place with unlicensed drivers, one of which had previously had their licence revoked by TfL,” says a TfL spokesperson. A similar issue allowed suspended drivers to create an Uber account and take passengers on trips.

Another one of the reasons why they lost their London licence in the first place was that many drivers did not have enough English to function at primary school level (Yes, the UK has a test for this).  So imagine if you have 3 or 4 guys from a former colony living in a bedsit looking for work.  One of them bribes and gets a licence (Yes, this happened as well!).  While he's legit, he has to sleep sometime, so his flatmates fake a photo and go out working their Uber PH cab...

[Rat Catcher]

Uber was never going to cease trading in London. All it's drivers have PH licences issued by TfL... TfL is legally responsible for overseeing the vetting process.

Our employment law differs substantially from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. They have a middle category between employed and self-employed to drag piece workers into their PAYE system.

[watty]

<snip>All it's drivers have PH licences issued by TfL...<snip>

...shame about the other 14,000 trips

Our employment law differs substantially from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. They have a middle category between employed and self-employed to drag piece workers into their PAYE system.

It would be interesting to see how similar cases get on within our system.

My 'favourite' one involved a soldier who was morbidly obese but he delivered the post around the army post he was assigned to.  The army doctor wanted to sack him because he was basically dead man walking.  The soldier argued he shouldn't be sacked because he wasn't really a soldier, he was more a postman and he could do that just fine.  The WRC (?) accepted his case but unfortunately he dropped dead of a heart attack before his case was finalised.

This country is a soft touch compared to the UK.  Sure you get €250-300/week here if you can't be bothered to work.  €350 when Leo was in charge.  Bring back Leo, he was great so he was 

[Shallowhal]

€350 when Leo was in charge. 

Some of us(me) still gettin it!!

[Belker]

...... Uber never used private motorists in the UK.Private hire drivers are something different.

I dont think your correct in saying that MFH.
I dont follow much international Taxi news but it was always my belief that Aus/USA/UK had a uber private/pop hire gig on the go.

[Belker]

There could easily be drivers on Freenow with faked IDs that haven't been found.....

How would they do that MFH ?
How exactly would they bypass the FN system of having their driver and vehicle licence being faked ?

[mercenary for hire]

Ken there was never private drivers on the UK Uber app.There may well have been some driver fraud but that isn't the the same thing. I've been saying it for year but some just wanna believe what they wanna believe.

I personally think the folks at Freenow are as competent as they might pretend to be.Think of the amount of foreign lads here who might have dodgy driver licences that they used to get Irish licences.Then there was cheating found at one of the taxi test centers a few years ago.Plenty of ways to circumvent the system.Where there is a will there's a way.If it wasn't for the NTA driver app there would be a lot more.

[mercenary for hire]

Just to be even clearer private hire in the UK is our equivalent of the hack/limo.Uber may have called it something else.Only in certain parts of the US and in limited other countries was there ever a private motorist picking up taxi fares.

I think at one stage the UK Uber app was allowing drivers to upload new pictures without verification which led to blokes loaning their Hackney Prius to their mate down the Mosque which made him look legit on the app.

Anyway we should probably be nice to Uber as they've got deep pockets and they're trying to buy Freenow.

[silverbullet]

€350 when Leo was in charge. 

Some of us(me) still gettin it!!

You must have been putting in long hours pre PUP.

[Shallowhal]

€350 when Leo was in charge. 

Some of us(me) still gettin it!!

You must have been putting in long hours pre PUP.

Nah....i got a real job in Sept Silver!!

[silverbullet]

€350 when Leo was in charge. 

Some of us(me) still gettin it!!

You must have been putting in long hours pre PUP.

Nah....i got a real job in Sept Silver!!

I'm stuck on €250.

[Rat Catcher]

43 drivers out of 45,000... hardly a big deal. PH firms in London are very poorly regulated, there must be thousands of unlicenced drivers working for low tech firms - particularly the Greek, Turkish and Pakistani firms. Did any of the 43 - only some of whom were unlicensed - rape and/or murder their clients?

Whatever way you look at it, Uber is far safer than taking your chances on the streets - particularly in Dublin where drivers' self-appointed representatives frequently complained about convicted criminals and unvetted immigrants holding taxi driving licences and have gone to court to defend convicted criminals' rights to be licensed. At least with an app the journey is monitored.