UK Judge says 28 mph in a 30 mph zone is too fast

[watty]

How long before something like this happens here in Dublin?  We have enough daft judges & a similar legal system!

Judge rules doctor was driving ‘too fast’ despite being under 30mph limit

A judge has warned about the dangers of driving at “excessive and unreasonable” speed after concluding that a hospital doctor who was in collision with a 12-year-old girl on a pedestrian crossing was going too fast despite being under a 30mph limit.  Deputy High Court Judge Dexter Dias heard that consultant physician Shanthi Chandran was driving her BMW i3 Range Extender at 28 mph in a 30-mph zone when the accident happened on a “dark and rainy Monday morning” on the Buckingham Road in Oxfordshire in January 2018.  He was also told that the child, who suffered a serious head injury, had stepped on to the crossing when the light was green for traffic.  But he concluded that Dr Chandran, who was on her way to work in Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, was driving at an “excessive, unsafe and unreasonable” speed and had failed to pay “sufficient attention to hazards and other road users”.  In a controversial ruling, the judge said there was a “common misconception” that it was “reasonable and competent” to drive “just below the speed limit”.  He said that “may not be”.  The girl’s mother had sued Dr Chandran for damages – on the girl’s behalf.

Judge Dias outlined his conclusions in a ruling published on Wednesday after considering evidence at a High Court hearing in London in April.  He said the child, who had been left with “cognitive and psychiatric problems”, could not be identified in media reports.  The judge ruled that Dr Chandran was in breach of her “duty of care” towards the child and was 60% liable for the incident.  He said the child had stepped on to a pedestrian crossing when the light was green for traffic and was 40% liable.  “While this case is not about a fatality, it shows yet again how dangerous it is to drive at excessive and unreasonable speed,” said Judge Dias in a written ruling.  “There is a common misconception that if one is driving just below the speed limit, this is sufficient to be a reasonable and competent driver.  “It may not be.  “The maximum speed limit is not a target or an infallibly safe measure.  “It is an absolute upper limit, only justified if conditions and the road situation are sufficiently good to permit it.  “This, essentially, was the error that Dr Chandran fell into.”

She alleged that the “incident” was caused by Dr Chandran’s negligence.  Lawyers representing her argued that Dr Chandran was “driving too fast” given the “prevailing conditions”.  They argued that if Dr Chandran had been driving at a “safe and reasonable speed”, the collision would not have happened.  Dr Chandran denied negligence and causation and argued that the incident was caused by the girl stepping out into the road when the “traffic light was green for vehicles to proceed”.  She said she was driving at 28 mph, which was below the 30mph speed limit, and “appropriate for the conditions” and maintained that the “liability” lay fully with the girl.  The judge heard that Dr Chandran had not been “reported by the police for any criminal offences”.

He said he had been asked to make decisions about liability – he has not made any ruling about the size of any damages award.

I wonder if the girl's legal team had any suggestion what the correct speed should have been?

[Shallow Hal]

Outrageous that a legal team can say any shit they want with regard to speed limits that are set by the relevant authority,the girl stepped out onto a crossing that was green for traffic to proceed,were her parents with her...should they be prosecuted for not supervising her cos clearly she needed supervising on how to cross a fukin road...as for the judge....nuff said!!

[watty]

Agreed.  The doctor is probably one of the few people in the UK who obeys the speed limits and look where it got her.  I think the fact the police didn't prosecute should have been a major factor as well.

Scary stuff considering the amount of driving we do.  You could do everything right but if you got the wrong judge...

[Octavia1]

How long before something like this happens here in Dublin?  We have enough daft judges & a similar legal system!

Judge rules doctor was driving ‘too fast’ despite being under 30mph limit

A judge has warned about the dangers of driving at “excessive and unreasonable” speed after concluding that a hospital doctor who was in collision with a 12-year-old girl on a pedestrian crossing was going too fast despite being under a 30mph limit.  Deputy High Court Judge Dexter Dias heard that consultant physician Shanthi Chandran was driving her BMW i3 Range Extender at 28 mph in a 30-mph zone when the accident happened on a “dark and rainy Monday morning” on the Buckingham Road in Oxfordshire in January 2018.  He was also told that the child, who suffered a serious head injury, had stepped on to the crossing when the light was green for traffic.  But he concluded that Dr Chandran, who was on her way to work in Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, was driving at an “excessive, unsafe and unreasonable” speed and had failed to pay “sufficient attention to hazards and other road users”.  In a controversial ruling, the judge said there was a “common misconception” that it was “reasonable and competent” to drive “just below the speed limit”.  He said that “may not be”.  The girl’s mother had sued Dr Chandran for damages – on the girl’s behalf.

Judge Dias outlined his conclusions in a ruling published on Wednesday after considering evidence at a High Court hearing in London in April.  He said the child, who had been left with “cognitive and psychiatric problems”, could not be identified in media reports.  The judge ruled that Dr Chandran was in breach of her “duty of care” towards the child and was 60% liable for the incident.  He said the child had stepped on to a pedestrian crossing when the light was green for traffic and was 40% liable.  “While this case is not about a fatality, it shows yet again how dangerous it is to drive at excessive and unreasonable speed,” said Judge Dias in a written ruling.  “There is a common misconception that if one is driving just below the speed limit, this is sufficient to be a reasonable and competent driver.  “It may not be.  “The maximum speed limit is not a target or an infallibly safe measure.  “It is an absolute upper limit, only justified if conditions and the road situation are sufficiently good to permit it.  “This, essentially, was the error that Dr Chandran fell into.”

She alleged that the “incident” was caused by Dr Chandran’s negligence.  Lawyers representing her argued that Dr Chandran was “driving too fast” given the “prevailing conditions”.  They argued that if Dr Chandran had been driving at a “safe and reasonable speed”, the collision would not have happened.  Dr Chandran denied negligence and causation and argued that the incident was caused by the girl stepping out into the road when the “traffic light was green for vehicles to proceed”.  She said she was driving at 28 mph, which was below the 30mph speed limit, and “appropriate for the conditions” and maintained that the “liability” lay fully with the girl.  The judge heard that Dr Chandran had not been “reported by the police for any criminal offences”.

He said he had been asked to make decisions about liability – he has not made any ruling about the size of any damages award.

I wonder if the girl's legal team had any suggestion what the correct speed should have been?

Fair play to the judge ....the speed limit is the max speed if yu can see all hazards ahead ...an thers no parked cars or vans ...or little kids around ....in this case the cnut in the beamer was probly on her phone ...
A pedestrian is always 100% in the right ...an a child doesn't even come into that rite or wrong business...a child is just a child ......
The yoke was  excessively speeding if she cudny stop in time .....but at that speed she was obviously not watchin the road an the most logical reason for that was...looking at Fakebook
Or tinder or sumtin ....

 

[watty]

With your experience of driving in the rain, what would you suggest was the correct speed?

The police didn't prosecute.  And during their investigation, they probably would have seized her phone and there was no evidence presented in court that she was looking at a phone screen...

[Octavia1]

With your experience of driving in the rain, what would you suggest was the correct speed?

The police didn't prosecute.  And during their investigation, they probably would have seized her phone and there was no evidence presented in court that she was looking at a phone screen...

I can't understand how the car didn't stop itself ....
I know the prius wud have ....
I taut BMW wer supposed be state o the art ....but obviously not ....
The speed limit doesn't even matter in this case ...she failed to stop ...

[markmiwurdz]

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"......nobody got Jack Joned the day JC said that....

[Octavia1]

https://youtu.be/UmH8jm6q38o
The problem wit these semi autonomous anti collision systems is that the human ape may become  semi dependable on them ....but in this case they clearly have a way to go ...I constantly use the cruise control  ting tinkin its a third  eye ...but this case is food for taut ....
Assuming it's the same model as in the link ....
I did say before that the prius slammed on the brakes wen a woman drove out between 2 parked vans on a bicycle ....in that case I was not alert an obviously driving too fast because i did not see the danger but the radar did .....
It's obvious the ape an robotic mechanisms are not infallible....but in a collision wit a pedestrian...they are always wrong in law as far as I know in that a human walkin ape is a natural entity  wher as a machine is not  ...an that shud always be the way it is ...

 

[silverbullet]

94% of accidents/collisions are caused by humans.

https://blog.gitnux.com/driverless-car-accident-statistics/#:~:text=Autonomous%20vehicle%20accidents%20have%20been,in%20terms%20of%20accident%20rate.

[watty]

Nobody put their name to that article.  I wonder if it was written by a computer?  Every paragraph begins:

This statistic is a crucial indicator of the safety of driverless cars,
This statistic is a powerful reminder of the potential of autonomous cars
This statistic is a crucial indicator of the safety of self-driving cars
This statistic is a powerful reminder of the potential of autonomous vehicles
This statistic is a testament to the safety of autonomous vehicles
This statistic is a testament to the safety of autonomous vehicles
This statistic is a stark reminder of the potential for driverless car accidents
This statistic is a powerful reminder of the potential economic benefits of autonomous vehicles
This statistic is a powerful indicator of the potential of the driverless car market
This statistic is a game-changer in the context of driverless car accident statistics
This statistic is a testament to the commitment of the driverless car industry to safety
This statistic is a stark reminder of the potential impact driverless cars could have on the roads
This statistic is a game-changer in the context of driverless car accident statistics
This statistic is a testament to the safety of autonomous vehicles
This statistic is a powerful reminder of the potential of self-driving cars to revolutionize road safety

If robo-cars are that good, why do they need "On average, self-driving cars receive 10-20 software updates per year to improve safety."  Imagine bringing your diesel Avensis back to the garage every few weeks for an update?

[silverbullet]

Nobody put their name to that article.  I wonder if it was written by a computer?  Every paragraph begins:

This statistic is a crucial indicator of the safety of driverless cars,
This statistic is a powerful reminder of the potential of autonomous cars
This statistic is a crucial indicator of the safety of self-driving cars
This statistic is a powerful reminder of the potential of autonomous vehicles
This statistic is a testament to the safety of autonomous vehicles
This statistic is a testament to the safety of autonomous vehicles
This statistic is a stark reminder of the potential for driverless car accidents
This statistic is a powerful reminder of the potential economic benefits of autonomous vehicles
This statistic is a powerful indicator of the potential of the driverless car market
This statistic is a game-changer in the context of driverless car accident statistics
This statistic is a testament to the commitment of the driverless car industry to safety
This statistic is a stark reminder of the potential impact driverless cars could have on the roads
This statistic is a game-changer in the context of driverless car accident statistics
This statistic is a testament to the safety of autonomous vehicles
This statistic is a powerful reminder of the potential of self-driving cars to revolutionize road safety

If robo-cars are that good, why do they need "On average, self-driving cars receive 10-20 software updates per year to improve safety."  Imagine bringing your diesel Avensis back to the garage every few weeks for an update?

I'm sure computers are updating their knowledge of the stupidity of homo sapiens.
I'm sure computers are already making truckies redundant, as per this article:
https://www.commercialfleet.org/news/truck-news/2018/09/17/inrix-reveals-best-roads-for-autonomous-truck-trials
I'm sure you'll have a witty riposte.

[watty]

Makes sense.  I always thought something like this would be the first use of robo-vehicles.  Driver #1 drives truck to edge of motorway where the computer takes over driving on the motorway.  Then driver #2 takes control when the robo-truck reaches the final town.  Ideal for running, say, full and empty beer kegs between Dublin to Cork?

[silverbullet]

Makes sense.  I always thought something like this would be the first use of robo-vehicles.  Driver #1 drives truck to edge of motorway where the computer takes over driving on the motorway.  Then driver #2 takes control when the robo-truck reaches the final town.  Ideal for running, say, full and empty beer kegs between Dublin to Cork?

AFAIK they have trialed platooning from Hamburg to Milan:
https://www.infrajournal.com/en/w/like-trains-but-on-the-motorway-here-is-truck-platooning-

A regular punter of mine moved here:https://inrix.com/ they supply all the data necessary for autonomous vehicles.

[taxi1990]

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligo/news/courts/speeder-49-driving-at-180kmhr-on-dual-carriageway-in-sligo-was-late-for-work-district-court-is-told/a669446383.html


what would the judge think of this guy?

[Shallow Hal]

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligo/news/courts/speeder-49-driving-at-180kmhr-on-dual-carriageway-in-sligo-was-late-for-work-district-court-is-told/a669446383.html


what would the judge think of this guy?

I'd say the hung,drawn and quartered sentence would deter future  law breakers!!