DO Licensing Review

[watty]

A lot of folk just want to get from A to B. As a bespoke service there ought to some form of quality control...

Getting from A to B is a bespoke or specialised service.  And there is a cost to that.  And there is QC - the entrance exam, the LRA, the 10 yr rule.  Maybe not the strictest QC but it is what it is.

We had a vibrant hackney service driven by men that served their communities, providing a real alternative to car ownership including in areas with scant bus services.

Dare I say we're priceless   It's things like this that make it worthwhile keeping the sPSV structures in place.  For these passengers (and lonely bachelors), I would suggest they're happy to pay the local rate which everyone is happy with and not change driver for a euro or two.  It's not all about the money?

If rideshare or Uber-style pricing gets a foothold, it's precisely the rural areas that will suffer.  The current driver knows he'll get his local fiver/tenner runs all day long but if Uber gets in, they'll want their money first and then add on a few pennies for the driver and it'll become too expensive for the locals.  Instead of ' taxi driver Bill' who the bachelor farmer has known for 10 years & trusts, it could be student Nath driving his mammy's car.  And he may or may not still be high from the student Thurs night blowout up in his University town.

I know you don't recognise such economic theories as the price elasticity of demand but, believe me, there's a reason the rideshare platforms offer discounts and there will be consequences when they stop financing those discounts through subsidies.

I'm well aware of price elasticity.  I keep an avid eye on my Amazon wishlist* because I know the prices they charge yoyo like crazy.  I arguing that price is not the only factor.  What I'm suggesting is the NTA take a wider/longer view than the next fiver.  If price were the only metric, why bother making us buy expensive WAT's or buy fire extinguishers that don't benefit the passenger?  Or making us take the extra 5 mins to get a blind person into the taxi.  We're a Public Service afterall and the Govt/NTA need to take that into account.  Story in today's paper saying pharmacists can now charge for some of their advisory services.  €30 for the pharmacist or €70 for the full-fat doctor.  The Govt made the decision that these prices are in the national interest and for the good health of the people.  Why not do the same for sPublicServiceV's?  No point in doing a biannual fare review if it's not worth the paper it's written on?

And I do give discounts.  I'll often round down to the nearest sensible number but frequently, the passenger will often round up the same fare to their sensible number.  And I think you've said it yourself that your taxi save passengers often tip, which doesn't make economic sense if lowest price was their primary motivation.





(* before you say anything, some of the stuff I buy simply can't be bought here)

[Rat Catcher]

Alas, I don't have Taxi Saver clients any more. Free Now increased commission on those jobs from 15% to 25% which is too much for me. When I did serve those clients under the original scheme I did find it odd that, for the most part, they tipped at least enough to cover the discounts they received (then €3/job) until I downloaded the rider app and found that Taxi Saver is the default option. To me, that made no sense at the time as it's just pushing discounts on clients who aren't looking for them. That ought make no sense from the firm's perspective either as, at that time, the rate of commission was the same on Taxi Saver and Full Fare jobs so by pushing the discounts they were lowering their own take. However, it's since become obvious that the plan was always to push Taxi Saver and increase their take on those fares. These days it seems the client gets the same discount regardless of the option he chooses so the only difference between TS and FF jobs is the rate of commission the driver pays. Of course, in the real world we know full well that they're not going to offer any job to any driver @15% commission without first trying to get it covered @25%.

I don't disagree that the rideshare platforms will monopolise the entire trade and do and nasty things with it. All I am suggesting is that it makes no sense to flush the baby with the bath water. Forcing drivers to charge Dublin rates all over the country and removing their ability to adapt to (local) market conditions will not result in some sort of utopia for Dublin drivers. Having a national maximum fare only works because it is a maximum. One size doesn't fit all so if there is to be minimum permissible rates they should be determined on a local basis with regional metered areas.

The fact is there's positives and negatives in everything we might come up with but we have a tendency to focus on either the positive or the negative as might fit our narrative - dare I say, a narrative that is generally highly subjective and naturally limited by our somewhat limited skillsets. For example, I'd be in favour of banning below cost selling... the downside of that is that it would immediately take millions of euros out of drivers' pockets. Someone else might be opposed to Free Now's surge fess... the downside of that being that they'll have to find that money somewhere else if they're not allowed prey on vulnerable rock stars and TV stars. Even the co-op has downsides. It's fare structure is likely to find far more appeal in the big cities than in rural towns hence the likes of me will probably still have to rely on the commercial rideshare platforms to get a job up above to Dublin but then I'd be more likely to switch off the commercial apps and stay up above in Dublin (taking your work!) instead of just driving back hoping to get something along the way.

[Octavia1]

Alas, I don't have Taxi Saver clients any more. Free Now increased commission on those jobs from 15% to 25% which is too much for me. When I did serve those clients under the original scheme I did find it odd that, for the most part, they tipped at least enough to cover the discounts they received (then €3/job) until I downloaded the rider app and found that Taxi Saver is the default option. To me, that made no sense at the time as it's just pushing discounts on clients who aren't looking for them. That ought make no sense from the firm's perspective either as, at that time, the rate of commission was the same on Taxi Saver and Full Fare jobs so by pushing the discounts they were lowering their own take. However, it's since become obvious that the plan was always to push Taxi Saver and increase their take on those fares. These days it seems the client gets the same discount regardless of the option he chooses so the only difference between TS and FF jobs is the rate of commission the driver pays. Of course, in the real world we know full well that they're not going to offer any job to any driver @15% commission without first trying to get it covered @25%.

 Why Do yu not see uber will do the same wit ther deals on wheels ?

Ubers commission will go to 50%

[Rat Catcher]

That's not news. I don't think there's anyone on here thick enough to think Uber, Bolt or Hola are going to subsidise fares forever. However, drivers being drivers, aren't going to refuse free money while it's being thrown at us. What happens when that stops will be one of two things, either drivers will do the work at the rates the rideshare platforms charge riders minus commission or demand will decline.

The real problem with rideshare platforms for me doesn't lie in the fares they charge, it's the cut of the fares they will take. In setting fares they have the technology to maximize total fares which is in both their and drivers' interests. However, they also have the technology to take that well beyond what might be considered morally just. They can and will use their platforms to manipulate perception in a way that allows them charge significantly higher fares than they will pay drivers. The only way to prevent that is for NTA to impose maximum rates of commission on what licensed dispatch operators are allowed charge drivers just as it imposes maximum rates for what drivers may charge riders.

However, there is a co-op under development which ought to provide drivers with a real alternative to working for any of the commercial rideshare platforms. That's probably our only realistic chance of preventing or, at least, curtailing the immoral practices that are certainly evident in other jurisdictions and, to some extent, here with Free Now making the first move towards what will eventually become dynamic rates of commission through it's various differing rates.

[Octavia1]

That's not news. I don't think there's anyone on here thick enough to think Uber, Bolt or Hola are going to subsidise fares forever. However, drivers being drivers, aren't going to refuse free money while it's being thrown at us. What happens when that stops will be one of two things, either drivers will do the work at the rates the rideshare platforms charge riders minus commission or demand will decline.

The real problem with rideshare platforms for me doesn't lie in the fares they charge, it's the cut of the fares they will take. In setting fares they have the technology to maximize total fares which is in both their and drivers' interests. However, they also have the technology to take that well beyond what might be considered morally just. They can and will use their platforms to manipulate perception in a way that allows them charge significantly higher fares than they will pay drivers. The only way to prevent that is for NTA to impose maximum rates of commission on what licensed dispatch operators are allowed charge drivers just as it imposes maximum rates for what drivers may charge riders.

However, there is a co-op under development which ought to provide drivers with a real alternative to working for any of the commercial rideshare platforms. That's probably our only realistic chance of preventing or, at least, curtailing the immoral practices that are certainly evident in other jurisdictions and, to some extent, here with Free Now making the first move towards what will eventually become dynamic rates of commission through it's various differing rates.

 You overthink things yet again ....The very simple answer is to refuse all discounts and dont engage in all this bullshit .... to say demand will increase the more discounts are given is uber nonsense.... the demand has been there without discounts for years ... demand will not go up with discounts .... ill say it 1 more time and perhaps youll get it ..... the purpose of fixed fares is not discounts it taking more money off of drivers wit no limit ...
Drivers who do fixed fares cannot think beyond next week or the fact that they are the business not uber .... we have the advantage in this country that ride share is not permitted and by doing these ff you are volunteering to dispense with the meter and become a rideshare driver and you agree to make your business non profitable....
Blah blah blah... im blue in the face  ..... its so obvious i dont understand anyone destroying ther own business and handing the market to uber on a silver platter ......

[Rat Catcher]

The only way to refuse all discounts is to delete all of the commercial rideshare platforms. In my rider apps the current rates of discount are:

Free Now 40% - applies to all vehicle/rate options
Bolt 20%
Uber 15%
Hola 10% + zero technology fee

Drivers ain't going to do that until/unless there's a viable alternative so let's hope all drivers get behind the co-op before the commercial firms stop throwing money at us.

[Octavia1]

The only way to refuse all discounts is to delete all of the commercial rideshare platforms. In my rider apps the current rates of discount are:

Free Now 40% - applies to all vehicle/rate options
Bolt 20%
Uber 15%
Hola 10% + zero technology fee

Drivers ain't going to do that until/unless there's a viable alternative so let's hope all drivers get behind the co-op before the commercial firms stop throwing money at us.

I havnt done any discounts.. don know wat yr talkin about .... i pay commission ..... I had a nice owlone who got in earlier to go airport an she said bolt already charged her before she got in the car € 26  .... I said the fare will be bout € 21-22  .it turned out to be € 21.80 ...... told her to take her card off it .... ther all at it .... robbin fuks

[Bob Shillin]

The only way to refuse all discounts is to delete all of the commercial rideshare platforms. In my rider apps the current rates of discount are:

Free Now 40% - applies to all vehicle/rate options
Bolt 20%
Uber 15%
Hola 10% + zero technology fee

Drivers ain't going to do that until/unless there's a viable alternative so let's hope all drivers get behind the co-op before the commercial firms stop throwing money at us.

I havnt done any discounts.. don know wat yr talkin about .... i pay commission ..... I had a nice owlone who got in earlier to go airport an she said bolt already charged her before she got in the car € 26  .... I said the fare will be bout € 21-22  .it turned out to be € 21.80 ...... told her to take her card off it .... ther all at it .... robbin fuks

It's not a permanent charge, it's a "hold", and is adjusted up, or down when the driver inputs the metered fare.

[Octavia1]

The only way to refuse all discounts is to delete all of the commercial rideshare platforms. In my rider apps the current rates of discount are:

Free Now 40% - applies to all vehicle/rate options
Bolt 20%
Uber 15%
Hola 10% + zero technology fee

Drivers ain't going to do that until/unless there's a viable alternative so let's hope all drivers get behind the co-op before the commercial firms stop throwing money at us.

I havnt done any discounts.. don know wat yr talkin about .... i pay commission ..... I had a nice owlone who got in earlier to go airport an she said bolt already charged her before she got in the car € 26  .... I said the fare will be bout € 21-22  .it turned out to be € 21.80 ...... told her to take her card off it .... ther all at it .... robbin fuks

It's not a permanent charge, it's a "hold", and is adjusted up, or down when the driver inputs the metered fare.

So they get a refund ?

[silverbullet]

The only way to refuse all discounts is to delete all of the commercial rideshare platforms. In my rider apps the current rates of discount are:

Free Now 40% - applies to all vehicle/rate options
Bolt 20%
Uber 15%
Hola 10% + zero technology fee

Drivers ain't going to do that until/unless there's a viable alternative so let's hope all drivers get behind the co-op before the commercial firms stop throwing money at us.

I havnt done any discounts.. don know wat yr talkin about .... i pay commission ..... I had a nice owlone who got in earlier to go airport an she said bolt already charged her before she got in the car € 26  .... I said the fare will be bout € 21-22  .it turned out to be € 21.80 ...... told her to take her card off it .... ther all at it .... robbin fuks

It's not a permanent charge, it's a "hold", and is adjusted up, or down when the driver inputs the metered fare.

So they get a refund ?

Yes.

[Belker]

The only way to refuse all discounts is to delete all of the commercial rideshare platforms. In my rider apps the current rates of discount are:

Free Now 40% - applies to all vehicle/rate options
Bolt 20%
Uber 15%
Hola 10% + zero technology fee

Drivers ain't going to do that until/unless there's a viable alternative so let's hope all drivers get behind the co-op before the commercial firms stop throwing money at us.

I havnt done any discounts.. don know wat yr talkin about .... i pay commission ..... I had a nice owlone who got in earlier to go airport an she said bolt already charged her before she got in the car € 26  .... I said the fare will be bout € 21-22  .it turned out to be € 21.80 ...... told her to take her card off it .... ther all at it .... robbin fuks

It's not a permanent charge, it's a "hold", and is adjusted up, or down when the driver inputs the metered fare.

So they get a refund ?

Not exactly a Refund, but the HOLD on her €26 will come off after a few days and the owlone will then be charged the €21.80 metered fare + whatever Technology fees.

[Rat Catcher]

It was a Bolt job, Ken. The adjusted charge will be c.€18.24 with the 20% discount. Do yis have Bolt in Cork?

[Belker]

It was a Bolt job, Ken. The adjusted charge will be c.€18.24 with the 20% discount. Do yis have Bolt in Cork?

We have had Bolt fer many years down here but I don't know of any driver or customer using it anymore.

Fer myself I signed up early with them about 2 years ago, they acted the maggot with me 3 times in the first fortnight, twice not paying out on accomplished Bobo's and once charging me with commission when I was suppossed to be commission free fer the first 6 weeks, all were rectified after email complaints from me to them with a "Sorry abo da" from the lovely Lucy. But I gave up on them after a fortnight rather than having to be checking my earnings in detail every week.

[silverbullet]

The only way to refuse all discounts is to delete all of the commercial rideshare platforms. In my rider apps the current rates of discount are:

Free Now 40% - applies to all vehicle/rate options
Bolt 20%
Uber 15%
Hola 10% + zero technology fee

Drivers ain't going to do that until/unless there's a viable alternative so let's hope all drivers get behind the co-op before the commercial firms stop throwing money at us.

I havnt done any discounts.. don know wat yr talkin about .... i pay commission ..... I had a nice owlone who got in earlier to go airport an she said bolt already charged her before she got in the car € 26  .... I said the fare will be bout € 21-22  .it turned out to be € 21.80 ...... told her to take her card off it .... ther all at it .... robbin fuks

I turned down a trip to Dundalk from Alexandra Road on UFF fo €154.88.

They hope it's like Heroin, once you try it you're hooked, fuck them.

[Rat Catcher]

The lovely Lucy is lovely and very efficient. She reimbursed me for a fare I apparently input incorrectly a good while back. Seemingly I entered 1.23 instead of 12.30.