Author Topic: Mind your backs  (Read 16615 times)

Offline Bubba Ho-Tep

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2018, 02:11:38 pm »
If the current temporary moratorium on the issue of saloon plates is never lifted, we will get there (or as close as makes no difference) in due course. However, the only WAVs currently joining the fleet have dirty diesel engines so they may be responsible for creating as many raspberries as they serve.

Ah shur, ah shur . That`s a different 100% WAVs of a different colour altogether. No fuckin use to us at all.

Offline Rat Catcher

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2018, 02:13:39 pm »
We need to move with the times... How about 82% Electric WAVs?
If it doesn't have a roof sign and door stickers it's not a taxi.

Offline Bubba Ho-Tep

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2018, 02:16:02 pm »
We need to move with the times... How about 82% Electric WAVs?

Too late for us Rat. Would you believe it`s 10 years since I suggested the 100 % idea...

Offline Rat Catcher

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2018, 02:21:05 pm »
Substantial progress has been made in that decade. 9.2% of the taxi fleet is now WA and 7.3% of all SPSVs are WA.
If it doesn't have a roof sign and door stickers it's not a taxi.

Offline Bubba Ho-Tep

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2018, 02:25:27 pm »
Substantial progress has been made in that decade. 9.2% of the taxi fleet is now WA and 7.3% of all SPSVs are WA.
And they`re paying for the privilege . Mad stuff Ted. Makes you wonder why a step by step plan to convert the fleet to 100% was dismissed out of hand during that submission stage yonks ago. Oh wait, they seen the danger of drivers controlling the industry again. None so blind as those that are short sighted cunts I suppose.

john m

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2018, 02:35:30 pm »
100% WAVs .......

I made that suggestion to the review All taxies must be WAT and to prevent an influx of rural taxies working Dublin or other cities all rural SPSV transport would be hacks .As all licenced taxies would then have a public service requirement to pick up mobility impaired customers we could then apply for public sercice status and possibly avail of VRT or VAT refunds .There would be nothing preventing Rural drivers to opt for a WAT to work their taximeter area instead of a hack if they the WAT work available to them.

 I think that boat has sailed Metaxi UBER and othres will now lobby Mr Ross to allow Rideshare outside of the Big Cities .That will allow them to build brand awareness so country folk and tourists will get brand aware and e hail their brand in the big Cities .I wonder how long before they go after the Points of Entry .AS FDS said its only a part time gig he is probably right for about 70% of the fleet .

Offline U Wha

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2018, 04:12:25 pm »
by taking back control of YOUR industry,and eliminating these unnecessary control freaks from the industry

Oh ok never would have thought of that.

FFS When are you going to stop Horsing that dead Flog nobody wants a co op app .Just look at the diverse opinions on here about FLAG or UBER or MEtaxi .

Dead horse. Don't think so!  And I was trying to see what RC meant by securing our future in earlier post. Plus DM obviously wasn't aware of my dead horse when he replied to my question to RC.

Be careful Ermy about calling the idea a dead horse cos it will get me all annoyed  and I may decide to waste my time with the co-option app instead of making hay while the sun shines in the game at the moment just to prove you wrong.

Offline Rat Catcher

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2018, 04:28:34 pm »
They'd prefer rideshare in the big cities where they can't meet demand, erm.
If it doesn't have a roof sign and door stickers it's not a taxi.

Offline watty

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2018, 06:12:01 pm »
Substantial progress has been made in that decade. 9.2% of the taxi fleet is now WA and 7.3% of all SPSVs are WA.
Some community worker who specialised in being nice to people with brain acquired injuries (or something) was on Newstalk during the week bemoaning how him and his wheelchair pal couldn't get a wheelchair taxi outside of Heuston.  Couldn't get a WAT either when they rang around.  There was lots of tut-tuting & shaking of heads. 

Anyhows Newstalk promised to keep on top of it...so that's sorted then!
Getting old is compulsory whilst growing up is voluntary.

john m

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2018, 01:28:00 am »
by taking back control of YOUR industry,and eliminating these unnecessary control freaks from the industry

Oh ok never would have thought of that.

FFS When are you going to stop Horsing that dead Flog nobody wants a co op app .Just look at the diverse opinions on here about FLAG or UBER or MEtaxi .

Dead horse. Don't think so!  And I was trying to see what RC meant by securing our future in earlier post. Plus DM obviously wasn't aware of my dead horse when he replied to my question to RC.

Be careful Ermy about calling the idea a dead horse cos it will get me all annoyed  and I may decide to waste my time with the co-option app instead of making hay while the sun shines in the game at the moment just to prove you wrong.

There are none so blind as the DEAF

Offline U Wha

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2018, 02:11:52 am »
by taking back control of YOUR industry,and eliminating these unnecessary control freaks from the industry

Oh ok never would have thought of that.

FFS When are you going to stop Horsing that dead Flog nobody wants a co op app .Just look at the diverse opinions on here about FLAG or UBER or MEtaxi .

Dead horse. Don't think so!  And I was trying to see what RC meant by securing our future in earlier post. Plus DM obviously wasn't aware of my dead horse when he replied to my question to RC.

Be careful Ermy about calling the idea a dead horse cos it will get me all annoyed  and I may decide to waste my time with the co-option app instead of making hay while the sun shines in the game at the moment just to prove you wrong.

There are none so blind as the DEAF

Pardon?


Offline U Wha

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2018, 03:21:37 am »
by taking back control of YOUR industry,and eliminating these unnecessary control freaks from the industry

Oh ok never would have thought of that.

FFS When are you going to stop Horsing that dead Flog nobody wants a co op app .Just look at the diverse opinions on here about FLAG or UBER or MEtaxi .

Erm, I take your point, things are good today, with all the apps falling over themselves, the drivers are in control due to the current economic climate, supply and demand, shortage of taxis versus demand for taxis. So the apps are trying to survive and will do anything to protect and control their market share.

Yea loads of money now, its great. But we are giving up control of our business. Imagine in a perfect taxi driver world where all drivers see the big picture and aren't short sighted and nobody works for dispatchers or apps. All the customers would have to hail on the street , walk to the rank or maybe call a regular taxi driver directly. Then all of the taxi work will always belong to taxi drivers and it would be there when you went out to work.

Even taking into account that the demand for taxis has increased over the last 30 years since consumers have had the option of calling or booking a taxi, fair enough, by why not by a system controlled by drivers.

When the cycle moves to the opposite, where there are more drivers and less work, the apps will gain control. Even now when things are good, 'the others' plot against the drivers, the MT ads on buses for drivers, the NTA 'fake' job ads for drivers, they want to take away our good times.

The bad times will come again and more and more frequently with shorter good spells and longer bad. When those days come, apps will control the work and no bonuses or stepped commission, the apps that survive will be ruthless.

When dispatchers and apps control taxi work it restricts a certain percentage of drivers from that 'controlled' work because they don't agree with the policies or have been excluded. The more dispatchers and apps that there are, the more work they control. That means there is less uncontrolled or independent work. This increases costs due to base fees or commission. Nearly impossible to earn a living unless you are tied to a dispatcher or app and they take their piece of skin for the privilege.

We are like a snake eating its own tail, full today but leading to our own destruction and rebirth on the dole.

Just have to read the posts back in the bad days about how controlling the dispatchers and apps were. Taxi drivers seem to be like goldfish, no long term memory, all about the moment.


As for Eircab, it is working in the background, setting up corporate and legal structures for driver membership, finding a good tech partner firm to develop a custom app that is owned by the co-op, including all data. Watching, learning, in no hurry and waiting to pick up the pieces after the commercial app war .

A 'real' co-op with one member, one share, one vote. Only way that can be changed is if there is a unanimous vote at a AGM or EGM.

It is envisaged that there will be a once off €100 admin membership fee to cover setup costs. Nothing to pay after that except a reducing commission and maybe a dividend return to drivers.

The co-op will register a private limited company to run the taxi app. The co-op will always have a controlling share in the company and this will be stated in the company's constitution.

Other elements of the co-op and the app will include:

Full Transparency.

One member, One share, One Vote and a voice at Annual General Meetings.

Fair division of work, all drivers are equal, none are more equal than others.

Reducing commission based on volume of work completed.

Credit card and Account work paid next day.

Credit card transaction fees covered by commission including street work!

No discounts, Ever!

Our own voice in the industry.

+ ?......  tell us, what have we missed?



No jobs for the boys, even me, once it is established, I am hopefully heading to a journalistic and academic career. What's in it for me?, That I made a difference and it will look good on my CV.


I respect all opinions about Eircab, for and against, it may work or maybe it won't, but if no one tries, it definitely won't. The co-op needs seven people to co sign its registration, I can get seven bodies to do that but I would rather get people on board that are passionate about our industry even if they have doubts or different opinions. That way it would have the best chance as an optimist's view may miss important issues and vice versa. There will be no reward other than giving back. PM me if you are interested in being founders of the co-op. All names put into hat and six pulled out and witnessed in a public place to be determined. Eh, unless you think the seven should be pulled out of the hat, then their is a risk that my name might not come out and I am cool with that if the seven are up to the job, I can be an adviser and join as a member later.

The co-founders will form the provisional board until elections are held at the first AGM. The co-founders will have an input and set out the rules/constitution/charter for the co-op.

All members will have access to Board Minutes and decisions by logging into their member account on the co-op website.


I genuinely 100% want it to work and have no agenda other than a comment on my CV and if all my career plans fail I can work away in the co-op/app as a taxi driver into my seventies, I hope.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 05:16:34 am by U Wha »

john m

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2018, 05:09:17 am »
+ ?......  tell us what have we missed? For this to work you need critical mass  .How do you intend to achieve this .Most drivers will understand that for this to work they must abandon any other app .Do you think that drivers are going to cut off their nose to spite their face by abandoning an app that makes money for them now in favour of using one that might make money for them in the future .The Logic of the situation is if some drivers abandon their present app and move over to your app then those drivers who remain with their present app will get more work off the app as the amount of drivers operating it will reduce .Your idea might sound good in your head but I dont believe it has 1% possibility of success just like Whistle and I wouldnt give FLAG much chance of success either they will only be a niech player .WE the drivers gave Hailo about 50 MILLION to help set up their app .No PUC cost drivers free waiting time cost drivers but it helped Hailo build a brand .What have you got to help you build your brand .Word of mouth is worthless to Sharon or Sean who want a taxi now .You dont have the drivers to provide that service so they simply wont use your app .FLAG know this and are offering free comission plus a fiver per job to drivers to turn on their app .

  As I asked in another post who are the investors in  FlAG who are ponying up for all the advertising and free fivers I hope they have deep pockets .6% commission is not viable .Have you done any Market Research  or cost based annalyses on running costs ,Advertising ,Staff wages , What is the average e hail fare or what figure did you use when calculating income over expenditure .I note you give no actual commission rate in your prospectus .Your main selling point seems to be that its a CoOp run by drivers .In your Business plan research what figure did you get for drivers actually interested in a CoOp.

Another interesting line in your prospectus {€100 membership once off admin fee. Nothing to pay after that except a reducing commission and eventually a dividend return to drivers.} 0% commission would lead to 0 income so in order to pay a dividend you would have to charge a % of commission above running costs to generate that dividend .So one of your selling points is a built in promise to overcharge for the service to generate a dividend .that makes absolute no sense charging drivers extra so you can give it back to them .

Here is an interesting conundrum you say in your proposal .{One member, One share, One Vote and a voice at Annual General Meetings.

Reducing commission based on volume of work completed.}Now its obvious from your first line that all shareholders are equal but then you say reduced commission based on the volume of work .Well Im a day time driver wotrking my patch building the brand but my patch is slow another driver is in a vibrant patch where his earnings are way above mine and according to the rules I must subsidize him by paying higher commission .Seems a bit Orwellian ,All drivers are equal but some drivers are more equal than others .Iwould seriously review your T&Cs


Offline U Wha

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2018, 06:14:49 am »
+ ?......  tell us what have we missed? For this to work you need critical mass  .How do you intend to achieve this .Most drivers will understand that for this to work they must abandon any other app .Do you think that drivers are going to cut off their nose to spite their face by abandoning an app that makes money for them now in favour of using one that might make money for them in the future .The Logic of the situation is if some drivers abandon their present app and move over to your app then those drivers who remain with their present app will get more work off the app as the amount of drivers operating it will reduce .Your idea might sound good in your head but I dont believe it has 1% possibility of success just like Whistle and I wouldnt give FLAG much chance of success either they will only be a niech player .WE the drivers gave Hailo about 50 MILLION to help set up their app .No PUC cost drivers free waiting time cost drivers but it helped Hailo build a brand .What have you got to help you build your brand .Word of mouth is worthless to Sharon or Sean who want a taxi now .You dont have the drivers to provide that service so they simply wont use your app .FLAG know this and are offering free comission plus a fiver per job to drivers to turn on their app .

  As I asked in another post who are the investors in  FlAG who are ponying up for all the advertising and free fivers I hope they have deep pockets .6% commission is not viable .Have you done any Market Research  or cost based annalyses on running costs ,Advertising ,Staff wages , What is the average e hail fare or what figure did you use when calculating income over expenditure .I note you give no actual commission rate in your prospectus .Your main selling point seems to be that its a CoOp run by drivers .In your Business plan research what figure did you get for drivers actually interested in a CoOp.

Another interesting line in your prospectus {€100 membership once off admin fee. Nothing to pay after that except a reducing commission and eventually a dividend return to drivers.} 0% commission would lead to 0 income so in order to pay a dividend you would have to charge a % of commission above running costs to generate that dividend .So one of your selling points is a built in promise to overcharge for the service to generate a dividend .that makes absolute no sense charging drivers extra so you can give it back to them .

Here is an interesting conundrum you say in your proposal .{One member, One share, One Vote and a voice at Annual General Meetings.

Reducing commission based on volume of work completed.}Now its obvious from your first line that all shareholders are equal but then you say reduced commission based on the volume of work .Well Im a day time driver wotrking my patch building the brand but my patch is slow another driver is in a vibrant patch where his earnings are way above mine and according to the rules I must subsidize him by paying higher commission .Seems a bit Orwellian ,All drivers are equal but some drivers are more equal than others .I would seriously review your T&Cs

John these aren't T&C's yet and are far from complete, they have to be fully determined by a Board. It is all in my head and notional at the moment. But where do you start except in someones head.

Loyalty to ones own app does cause a conundrum, all I can say John is I don't have all the answers. Ideally drivers would abandon other apps but in the real world bills have to be paid. Maybe a strategic approach could be adopted, use the other apps tactically day to day to suit but with a long term strategic approach of reducing and promoting ones own app.

Converting people is a something that needs serious thinking, Hailo incentivised drivers to promote the app in car with referral codes and bonuses. You remember the traditional dispatch companies tried to discourage that with dismal failure, something MR Boyle didn't learn or wasn't aware of when he tried to tell whistle drivers they couldn't take other work.

We can get their subversively, undermine the system while living it. My opinion is that I would suggest a slow deliberated approach, what is the hurry. Hopefully more input over time from members might help to discover or evolve a solution.

As for the full cost breakdown, not even in that mindset yet. If we wanted, we  could draw from existing operators and predict costs. My suggestion about reducing commission is from my observations from the posts on this forum and how the apps are reacting to current economic and market conditions.

The Eircab Board would calculate annual costs (as it is not for profit) and estimate traffic based on membership and average daily/weekly/monthly/annual work per driver and set the minimum commission rates required to cover it.

The idea of reducing commission is that drivers that work more pay less. I didn't say 0% commission.

Drivers interested in the Co-op?  haven't a clue to be honest, hoping a significant proportion, if the message is delivered effectively.

Based on Whistle propaganda, they got 2000 drivers to pony up €50 with a dodgy enough proposal. 

Equal membership. One member, one share, one vote relates to the ownership and voting on policy decisions at AGM's. my cheeky reference to Orwell was meant to indicate that no one individual or group could takeover, ever, unless everyone at an AGM voted for it. These are my thoughts John, It will be up to the 7 founders to decide on the first constitution, but I hope to advocate my views on it.

Membership as detailed above and Commission are separate issues. Any SPSV driver can be a member but they will pay a higher commissioner for the first (to be determined) number of jobs and reducing on a scale thereafter.  This is meant to ensure that drivers that do more don't pay more than is determined to be fair. One might do 4 jobs a week and another one might do 80 jobs a week. The more work you do the less commission you pay, unfortunately it may not be zero commission. It is possible if the co-op/app was a success that their would be enough drivers and enough work, so that at some point the costs as determined by the Board would be met and any surplus could be returned to drivers by way of dividend or by what ever means as determined by the Board.

Higher commission for fewer jobs covered would be fair to drivers that cover more work for app as the drivers that dip in and out would pay more. How that works exactly is to be determined, I don't have all the solutions yet, need team work to do that.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 06:26:21 am by U Wha »

dalymount

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Re: Mind your backs
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2018, 01:37:31 pm »
i don't know why you just cannot find your own work, and fuck all these apps, and radios ? I'm not with any of them, and I do alright

 


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