Eircab Taxi App

[U Wha]

I am going to get the ball rolling on the eircab app driver co-op.

It will take a few months, but no need to rush it as we all are currently benefiting from the bonuses and low commissions being offered at the moment from the other apps.

There is a mandatory requirement for seven people that will benefit from the co-op to incorporate the co-op.

This will be voluntary and will involve preparing a basic business plan to detail viability and the rules of the co-op.

Rat Catcher has put his name forward and so Have I.

There is another lad I know from the rank in Dundrum who said he would be interested but I have to check with him again, its been a couple of months.

Anyone else that wold like to be involved in establishing the co-op should put their name by posting here.

If there is more than 7 names we can pull names from a hat.


All members will pay a once off €100 admin fee and the seven special/founding members that incorporate the co-op will use their fees to cover the registration.

Any questions please ask?

[U Wha]

Incorporating a Co-operative Society

What Incorporation Means
Co-operative societies of all types are incorporated by being registered under the Industrial and
Provident Societies Acts 1893 -1978. The Registrar of Friendly Societies administers these Acts. The
office of the Registrar is located at Parnell House, 14 Parnell Square, Dublin 1.
A minimum of seven persons is required to incorporate a co-operative society under the legislation.
(Where a federal or secondary co-operative is being established by two or more co-operatives a
minimum of two participating co-operatives is sufficient.) A suitable name must be chosen for the
co-operative and the name must include the words "Society" and "Limited". A registered office for
the proposed co-operative must be identified to which all correspondence can be sent.

Legal Nature of a Co-operative
A registered co-operative, like a company, is an incorporated legal entity. It is a legal person separate
from the members who set it up. It can act on its own initiative, can enter contracts, can sue and be
sued, but must also be responsible for its actions. Like a company, a co-operative enjoys limited
liability. The liability of the members is limited to the shares they have applied for in the cooperative.
The word "Limited" should always appear after the name of the co-operative.

Special Members
The people who sign the application for registration are called the Special Members. They must act
as the Committee of Management or Board of Directors of the co-operative until the first Statutory
General Meeting is held, usually as soon as convenient after registration.

New Members/Elections
Authority to admit people to membership of a co-operative rests with the Committee of
Management/Board (with the Special Members until the Committee or Board is first elected). The
Special Members admit applicants to membership of the co-operative and issue them with shares
for which they have applied. Usually a standard form of application is available and each cooperative
will have its own internal rules about the level of investment required from members.
The new total membership will then elect a Committee of Management or Board under the Rules of
the co-operative and that group will normally hold office for a year until the next Annual General
Meeting. The Rules provide for a proportion of the Committee/Board to retire each year and be
eligible for re-election.

Shareholding Limits
Under current legislation no individual member can hold an interest of more than €150,000 or 1% of
the total asset value of the co-operative whichever is the greater in any co-operative society.

Reporting Requirements
The law requires that each society must keep appropriate accounts, books and records and the
members in general meeting must appoint a public auditor annually. There is also a requirement
that the audited accounts be submitted with a properly completed Annual Return to the Registrar of
Friendly Societies by the 31st March. Every three years a society must complete a “Triennial Return”
and submit it to the Registrar of Friendly Societies. The appropriate forms and further details in
regard to these requirements can be had by contacting the Registry of Friendly Societies.

[Korky]

If it’s a true  CO-OP, why limit it to 7, seven is the minimum requirement, no maximum?

[U Wha]

If it’s a true  CO-OP, why limit it to 7, seven is the minimum requirement, no maximum?

Fair point. Not sure if it is fixed or a maximum of 7 to set it up, I will ask.

[john m]

If it’s a true  CO-OP, why limit it to 7, seven is the minimum requirement, no maximum?

Fair point. Not sure if it is fixed or a maximum of 7 to set it up, I will ask.

NOT SURE ..dead before it launched .Why do taxi app promoters never develope a proper business proposal before they look for support .

[U Wha]

If it’s a true  CO-OP, why limit it to 7, seven is the minimum requirement, no maximum?

Fair point. Not sure if it is fixed or a maximum of 7 to set it up, I will ask.

NOT SURE ..dead before it launched .Why do taxi app promoters never develope a proper business proposal before they look for support .

I have set out my idea/proposal a few times on different threads over the last few months. A search will bring them up.

However it is not my place to come up with a clearly defined finished product.

I have very strong views about how the co-op should operate but they are my views and if this is to be a truly democratic co-op then input from others is vital.

I propose a co-op that is one member one vote. The inaugural co-op board would decide policy, plan research, prepare a business model that suits the membership, the market and promote it to potential members.

Once the inaugural board agrees a direction, I will be happy to give my time as part of my college studies for the next year and help to implement the Boards policies.

I think you would be a great addition John as you have a particular way of looking at things and that would be good for the co-op as long as it was constructive. Even negativity can be constructive if used in the right way.

[silverbullet]

I was in a badly run one briefly. A.S.A.P. were far more effective and Professional.

http://icos.ie/starting-a-co-op/intro/

[U Wha]

I was in a badly run one briefly. A.S.A.P. were far more effective and Professional.

http://icos.ie/starting-a-co-op/intro/

Lessons learnt and different times. Plenty of people with ideas there but wanted others to do the work.

Are ASAP.still running as a co-op?

[john m]

First define what your offering is it
(a) A taxi application to dispatch work to drivers  .
(b) A taxiapp that dispatches workto its owners

If the answer is (a) Compare and contrast with existing apps and tell partisipants what differentiates you from all the other applications in the field and why they shold choose you .Give indept annalyses to support your assertions that your offering differs enough to encourage partisipation .

If the answer is (b) then incorporate your findings in support of proposition (a) and give a synopsis of why it would be benificial to be an owner of this application .Give a stage one annalyses of costs associated with the setting up and development of the Application including hosting and servicing .  When you have assertained your infrastructure costs and basic operating costs .Then you can research the average Ehail fare for Dublin .I can help you with that as I partook in an exploritory Application Development with some Technitians from Amazon three years ago as posted on Roys .The average E hail fare for the Dublin region is  14 euro and the average city fare ie pick up and drop off between the Canals is 11.20 excluding PUC .Now using theose figures you can develope a matrix for the average amount of fares  you will need to cover  your running costs remember to include any Credit Card service charges to be extracted from any commissions and any Public Liability or Product insurance that may be necessary also include the cost of data storage to comply with existing of future legislation .Now from the simple Business Structural Cost Anallysis  you will of carried out ,you should be able to develope a simple prospectus which may state that .Your proposal is to develope an application to compete with existing Taxi dispatch applications that is driver owned on a Co Op basis .Our research has pointed to a basic of (x) amount of jobs per week based on an average fare of 12.60  .Now you have a tangable costed Initial offering you put that costed proposition to perspective Co Op members and see if they think it is viable .Then you sign up possible members ,based on the number of members you set a share price and explain how the share capital is to be used in the development of the project After you have your members then you offer one man one vote you develope a constitution vote on it and then take your chances .

I need a few people @100 yoyo a head is not a business plan .I wish you the best of luck but like many others who have and will try your chance of success is very slight .Hailo were given over 50 million euro in good will through drivers not charging PUC and Free waiting time ,They reinvested most of their profits back into the business and still had to be rescued by Daimlers Billions .As an academic exercise follow my simple business plan as it will show your College that you understand the actual business you are studying but as a Real for Profit business idea  I cannot see any merit in it .

N.B.The figures I gave for average fares are averaged over a 24 hour cycle and were gained by using analytical tools based on data collected from their own research .So I would use a lower figure when calculating how many jobs per day/week/or month your Co Op would need to break even as there may be a distortion in the figures based on rate 1 or Rate 2 fare compleations.It  might be better to deduct the % difference between Rate 1 and Rate "2 from each fare that way any miscalculation of the break even point will appear on the credit side of the equation .Also those figures were calculated before the 3% fare increase which must be included in calculations .

[Belker]

You forgot advertising/marketing costs John M.

To quote Bill Gates; "If I only had $5 left in the world,
then I would spend it on marketing".

[Belker]

If it’s a true  CO-OP, why limit it to 7, seven is the minimum requirement, no maximum?

Fair point. Not sure if it is fixed or a maximum of 7 to set it up, I will ask.

That's not a good start U Wha, did you not read reply number 1
before you posted it yourself.

Incorporating a Co-operative Society

A minimum of seven persons is required to incorporate a co-operative society under the legislation.

[john m]

You forgot advertising/marketing costs John M.

To quote Bill Gates; "If I only had $5 left in the world,
then I would spend it on marketing".

Fixed costs only .Advertising wages promotions would be discretionary spending .First you need to identify how much it costs to just engage the system .As I said how many jobs to break even .Then drivers will know based on the amount of drivers signing up how many jobs they would each have to commit to in order to make the idea viable or how little work might be available if the amount of drivers are oversubscribed .By having a realistic operational figure you can then decide if you need to limit the initial intake of drivers with a waiting list that will allow drivers join in  pro rata .Will there be a committment from drivers to cover all job offers as they are owner operaters .Co Op are a bit like communism where they are run for the Common Good as long as the other fells does more than you do but you get the same reward .Metaxi have this Game sewn up due to the tens of Millions drivers contributed to establishing it .FLAG have the fairest system but have no funds to attract drivers or passengers .I would suggest a 4 Million Euro budget would be needed just to have a chance not withstanding any retalliation from Metaxi .If I was to advise a driver on the most effective option I would suggest become a Mytaxi Ambassador ,they have the work simple as .

[U Wha]

If it’s a true  CO-OP, why limit it to 7, seven is the minimum requirement, no maximum?

Fair point. Not sure if it is fixed or a maximum of 7 to set it up, I will ask.

That's not a good start U Wha, did you not read reply number 1
before you posted it yourself.

Incorporating a Co-operative Society

A minimum of seven persons is required to incorporate a co-operative society under the legislation.

I know they state a minimum of 7 and there is no reference to a maximum so in theory a 1000  founding members  could set it up but they may not allow that as it would be a lot of administration processing for the registrar and umbrella body that helps co-ops set up. That is where I found the rules of incorporation on the 2nd  post of this thread,  ICOS which was also referred to by Silverbullet.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

A Co Op may have as many members as it desires PROVIDED the registrar has the proper documentation on record. Co Op should be restricted to 1 member 1 vote. No member should have a shareholding value greater than another member. Here`s where it tends to fall down : The AGM elects the officers. Now regardless of hiring outside "professionals", some inbred fuck will normally take umbrage at some perceived slight on his/her brilliance and then it all turns to shite.

[U Wha]

First define what your offering is it
(a) A taxi application to dispatch work to drivers  .
(b) A taxiapp that dispatches workto its owners

If the answer is (a) Compare and contrast with existing apps and tell partisipants what differentiates you from all the other applications in the field and why they shold choose you .Give indept annalyses to support your assertions that your offering differs enough to encourage partisipation .

If the answer is (b) then incorporate your findings in support of proposition (a) and give a synopsis of why it would be benificial to be an owner of this application .Give a stage one annalyses of costs associated with the setting up and development of the Application including hosting and servicing .  When you have assertained your infrastructure costs and basic operating costs .Then you can research the average Ehail fare for Dublin .I can help you with that as I partook in an exploritory Application Development with some Technitians from Amazon three years ago as posted on Roys .The average E hail fare for the Dublin region is  14 euro and the average city fare ie pick up and drop off between the Canals is 11.20 excluding PUC .Now using theose figures you can develope a matrix for the average amount of fares  you will need to cover  your running costs remember to include any Credit Card service charges to be extracted from any commissions and any Public Liability or Product insurance that may be necessary also include the cost of data storage to comply with existing of future legislation .Now from the simple Business Structural Cost Anallysis  you will of carried out ,you should be able to develope a simple prospectus which may state that .Your proposal is to develope an application to compete with existing Taxi dispatch applications that is driver owned on a Co Op basis .Our research has pointed to a basic of (x) amount of jobs per week based on an average fare of 12.60  .Now you have a tangable costed Initial offering you put that costed proposition to perspective Co Op members and see if they think it is viable .Then you sign up possible members ,based on the number of members you set a share price and explain how the share capital is to be used in the development of the project After you have your members then you offer one man one vote you develope a constitution vote on it and then take your chances .

I need a few people @100 yoyo a head is not a business plan .I wish you the best of luck but like many others who have and will try your chance of success is very slight .Hailo were given over 50 million euro in good will through drivers not charging PUC and Free waiting time ,They reinvested most of their profits back into the business and still had to be rescued by Daimlers Billions .As an academic exercise follow my simple business plan as it will show your College that you understand the actual business you are studying but as a Real for Profit business idea  I cannot see any merit in it .

N.B.The figures I gave for average fares are averaged over a 24 hour cycle and were gained by using analytical tools based on data collected from their own research .So I would use a lower figure when calculating how many jobs per day/week/or month your Co Op would need to break even as there may be a distortion in the figures based on rate 1 or Rate 2 fare compleations.It  might be better to deduct the % difference between Rate 1 and Rate "2 from each fare that way any miscalculation of the break even point will appear on the credit side of the equation .Also those figures were calculated before the 3% fare increase which must be included in calculations .

John the above suggestions are a good idea and that is exactly why I think someone like yourself should be involved in the co-op, with your knowledge and obvious passion for our profession the co-op would be better for it.

however, If you are suggesting that I do the above as the first individual promoter of the proposal, I don't think so.

If I tried to give prospective members that much information as a pitch, their eyes would glaze over in most cases. A brief synopsis that outlines the proposal, having the necessary research to back it up, which would allow questions to be answered accurately. The key is driver support and spreading the word.

The most fundamental part of the proposal, is a taxi driver co-op that is open, transparent and owned equally by all drivers. The co-op will design and own a taxi app that suits the members needs.

How that works and how it is financed is open for debate, discussion and agreement by the members. It is not up to me,

I have strong ideas on how I think a co-op should work and the suggestions you made are valid too, but only with the agreement of the members.

No point in me or anyone else chasing tails, coming up with ideas that the majority of members don't like or disagree with, as that would be a recipe for disaster.

As eluded to by silverbullet about his brief experience of a badly run co-op, I was involved in that. Mistakes were made by me and others.

I tried to implement my ideas and that proved to be a disaster as other members had different ideas which created friction, division and disagreement.

I gained invaluable experience which cannot be bought. The in's, out's and pitfalls of starting a co-op, dealing with committees and members.

Hopefully I have learnt and maybe the timing in 2010 was premature, in the middle of a recession, the app technology that is in use today today was in its infancy and the co-op tried to operate like a traditional dispatcher with associated high costs.

One lesson that I learnt is, not to come up with a complete package to promote as it may not be ideal. Ideally what should be done is to promote a concept.

"A market leading taxi app owned by a drivers co-op that delivers a superior service creating value for drivers and passengers."

New members would join the co-op and receive there membership share certificate. The €100 admin fee held in escrow by a reputable solicitor or accountancy firm until a viable number of members have joined less a suggested 20% non refundable portion to cover the membership promotion campaign costs. Exactly how and what for to be determined by the founding members and Board. On reaching the minimum viable number of members required. The board would commence negotiations to design a customized taxi app were the proprietary rights belong to the co-op and engage with a PR firm on how best to promote the new app. When that is achieved the board will recruit the necessary non driver/member staff to run the operation on a day to day basis.

How we do that is up to members, once members agree, I happy to do whatever I can to make that happen for the first year as part of my college course.

I have tried to shake the idea off, I have tried to take on board comments and suggestions that it couldn't work, but there is something that draws me back, something inside me believes that this can work.