Author Topic: Irexit -vs- Brexit  (Read 567 times)

Offline Rat Catcher

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Irexit -vs- Brexit
« on: January 06, 2019, 05:57:26 PM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/ireland-loves-exactly-what-britain-hates-about-europe-1.3747849

Ireland loves exactly what Britain hates about Europe

London and Dublin’s mental geographies have embarked on different trajectories

Sat, Jan 5, 2019, 06:00
Bobby McDonagh

Although Ireland will be deeply affected by Brexit, we have to an extraordinary extent been unaffected by the Brexit debate. The main arguments and fears of the Brexiteers are essentially alien to us. We don’t share their wish to return to an imagined past. Unlike the UK today, we are confident about our ability to promote our interests in the modern interdependent world. Xenophobia in Ireland is not on anything like the scale we have recently witnessed in the UK. Nor do we share the insularity of the Brexiteers. Quite remarkably, today it is the UK rather than Ireland which, in the words of the song, thanks God it’s surrounded by water.
In Ireland and Britain, we increasingly perceive reality in quite different ways. The reasons a majority in the UK voted to leave the EU are, paradoxically, the very same reasons that an overwhelming majority in Ireland want to stay. This is true of each of the six main arguments of the Brexiteers.

An attachment to sovereignty was the first and major reason put forward for Brexit. We in Ireland, however, understand sovereignty in the 21st century as something to be judiciously shared rather than as a tribal token to be protected from the sunlight like Gollum’s ring in The Hobbit. Gollum’s plaintive words, as he looks for the ring, could almost be those of Jacob Rees-Mogg speaking about British sovereignty: “We wants it. We needs it. Must have the precious. They stole it from us. Sneaky little hobbitses.”

Ireland’s desire to be as global as possible, on the contrary, is one of the very reasons we remain committed to the EU

Second, many Brexiteers want to leave the EU because they believe that it will enable Britain to “go global”. Ireland’s desire to be as global as possible, on the contrary, is one of the very reasons we remain committed to the EU. We understand that there is no contradiction between, on the one hand, developing the closest relations with our natural neighbourhood and market and, on the other hand, developing deeper links with the wider word. Indeed we recognise that the EU has the essential negotiating heft to make global reach effective, as reflected most recently in the EU’s major trade deal with Japan.

‘Taking control’
Third, the Brexit slogan about “taking control” was at the heart of the Leave campaign and has echoed across the British public debate ever since. The immense success of that policy has been on daily display at Westminster. Funnily enough, we in Ireland, in common with our other EU partners, are opting to stay in the EU precisely because we want to have control over the issues that affect us. Many issues, from education to health to policing, will, of course, continue to be controlled largely at national level since the EU can only exercise the powers which all member states have agreed to confer on it. But in Ireland we understand that if we want to maximise control over the important issues which by definition do not stop at borders – from trade to energy to international crime – these must be addressed on a cross-border basis; and we know the EU remains the most effective cross-border mechanism in the world.

We know the EU remains the most effective cross-border mechanism in the world

Fourth, many Brexiteers are driven by the idea that they are putting their country first. But so, of course, do we. The real issue is whether national interests are to be defined narrowly and pursued as if the aim is to be masters of our own little world; or whether, as we believe in Ireland, those interests should be defined broadly and pursued in the knowledge that the real world is necessarily one of interdependence, compromise and shared interests.

Welcome for foreigners
Fifth, the most emotive argument for some, though not all, Brexiteers has been about keeping foreigners out. In Ireland, we support the principle of free movement of people and welcome the “new Irish” who are building up our economy, enriching our culture and making us proud to be Europeans.

Finally, many Brexit voters were influenced by the notion of the UK becoming more “independent”. Some even went so far as to call June 23rd, 2016, “Independence Day”. It requires myopia, when one thinks of say Finland or Lithuania, for any of our British friends to believe that they alone truly value independence. But it reaches full historical amnesia for any British person to believe they need, as Nigel Farage absurdly has done, to remind Ireland of the meaning of independence. Independence for us is not something to celebrate in lonely isolation; rather it allows us, to use Robert Emmet’s phrase, to take our place among the nations of the earth.

It has become clear that many Irish and British people now have quite different understandings of the world. The sad reality is that our mental geography is increasingly different and that we are now set on different trajectories. The mature Irish response to Brexit may prove to be the most important assertion yet of our psychological independence.

Bobby McDonagh is a former Irish ambassador to the EU, Britain and Italy

Offline john m

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2019, 06:25:58 PM »
The Irish (government )are low life scumbags who have ripped off every other citizen of Europe .We have facilitated some of the worlds wealthiest companies to avoid /evade /cheat their taxes .After Brexit and our best friends THe Brits leave the EU the EU are going to beat us like rented mules .As the Gay Foreigner is allowing Europe fuck us to punish the Brits at the same time the European Commission are changing the rules on Qualified voting which will mean Ireland will lose its veto on setting corporate tax rates .Irelands love affair with Europe wont last to long when the que outside the Dole are  as long as they were in the 70s and 80s .

Offline silverbullet

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2019, 06:57:12 PM »
Is that McDonagh fella an Italian?

Offline Shallowhal

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2019, 07:12:05 PM »
Is that McDonagh fella an Italian?

Only of a Sunda.

Offline dalymount

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2019, 07:20:29 PM »
I didnt rad it all ,its to long.while I accept this country is probably the most pro EU within the bloc,it is my fervent hope that I will live long enough to seethe total destruction of the European Union.every conversation,debate,or comment, I have ever heard regarding the EU,has been Irish people proclaiming the great economic benefits the EU has bestowed upon this country.well these,same people needto realize that for some of us,its not all about economic benefits.the scum in leinster house willingly gave away our national identity,our,culture,and our heritage.most of all the gave away the sovereignty of ot country . The1916 leadership would turn in their graves if they seen the state of our country today.we sold our morality,our principles,and our values in order to stay aligned with this liberal europe who believe in same sex marriage,abortion,etc etc.they say we must protect the children of the nation,well when Peirce,Connolly,and Mcbride died for Ireland,I would suggest they never thought the children of the nation would be from nigeria,poland,china,etc etc

Offline SClass

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2019, 09:42:55 PM »
  Comparing England with Ireland
 
  UK is a fully developed country in every way.
 66.02 million people,
   Ireland 4.784 million
   We should keep our mouths shut ,
  And join the Brits,
 Get to fuck out of the cesspit.

Offline Vikkiz

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2019, 10:08:35 PM »
If we were to have a vote to leave the EU the remain side would win hands down, sure even in this group we have 2 leavers and then 12 remainers

Offline dalymount

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2019, 07:56:38 AM »
Vkizz,I dont doubt what you say about an Irish referendum being massively in favour of remain. In fact I have said it myself,that this country is probably the most pro EU country within the bloc.but my hope is ,that other countries like France,Germany Hungary Italy etc will bring it to its knees.now I know in otder for that to happen,Marine Le Pen has to get elected in France,Orban is already in power in Hungary,Salvini is in power in Italy,and im hoping the AFD will get power in Germany

Offline The Liffey Lip

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2019, 08:28:08 AM »
Hungary did the right thing by kicking Soros out and banning his money-men from hijacking the "social conscience" of those misguided Facebook and Twitter mongs. The aim of the EU was and is to get people to accept communism,whereby poverty is embraced whilst the elite rob and misappropriate the assets.....we were done in 2008...........no going back..........the EU owns us lock, stock and 2 smoking cocks.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 08:35:55 AM by The Liffey Lip »

Offline dalymount

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2019, 09:00:20 AM »
Not if Le Pen gets elected,she will get France out and that,coupled with British withdrawal,would be a fatal blow to the bastards

Offline The Liffey Lip

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2019, 09:06:06 AM »
I'll masturbate on O'Connell St. if Le Pen is ever LET get into power, Dalyer....and I'll wear my 4 foot 8 mott's high-heels singing Danny Boy in the process.

Offline john m

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2019, 09:43:49 AM »
I wouldnt be to sure we would vote to remain .After Brexit if it happens The EU shits in our mouth ,import duty and export duty between us and the GB will drive down the living standards in Ireland .If there was a vote tomorrow I would vote leave .Universal corporate tax across the EU and  Brexit would mean recession in Ireland .People forget the Government convinced us to vote for the Fiscal Treaty which is written into the constitution 3% deficite is all we can run ,if corporation tax dissapears or is reduced and revenue from PRSI and income tax is reduced from multinationals who fuck off because the tax is the same but the cost of doing business is higher in ireland .Anty EU sentiment will explode .I wouldnt bet to much on us being members of the EU in 2030 I wouldnt bet a lot onthe Euro still existing in 2030..While everybody is looking at Trump the Fucktard and Brexit .Check out the German Stock Market collapse of the last 12 months ,Germany is heading into recession and thats not good for the single currency .

Offline mercenary for hire

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2019, 09:51:16 AM »
The Chinese are going down too with help from Trump and his trade war.Wont be too long before it makes its way around to us.Fill yer boots lads.The end is near.Probably.

Offline Rat Catcher

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2019, 05:31:24 PM »
Contrary to the tone of your suggestion DM, I think Connolly would take great satisfaction in the fact that the rank at "his" train station is predominately worked by immigrants and in the fact that many immigrants work in "his" hospital... given his commitment to campaigning for the rights of immigrant workers in the US and elsewhere. To be frank, trying to associate the men of '16 with right wing racism is an insult to them and the principles upon which our nation was established.

Offline dalymount

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Re: Irexit -vs- Brexit
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2019, 06:38:14 PM »
Are you serious rat ?  How ,in the name of God is what I said in any racist ?  You seem to be another one of these people that cry racist if somebody looks the wrong way at a foreigner.what I pointed out was,where the proclamation talks about protecting the children of the nation ,I doubt very much that the authors thought that 100 years later, that the children of the nation would be Africans polish,Chinese,etc etc.I am most respectful of the stand taken by the men of 1916,and also the 1981hunger strikers whom i doubt you have very much knowledge of.I deeply resent your assertion that I have been disrespectful of the events,or efforts.of the 1916-leadership

 


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