Author Topic: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)  (Read 1438 times)

Offline watty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1453
  • Karma: +0/-0
Warning alert - this is from the Internet so probably a load of bollox

I saw this thread over on boards.ie 'legal discussion' forum earlier on and thought I'd make youse aware of it --> tolls not accepting cash or cards  Basically, the OP* was giving out about the Port Tunnel being "cash & tag only - no cards" only at the moment.  One poster ** suggested there were 2 ways a debt could be created.  One was asking for the money (& the payment method) upfront & you could opt-in or out.  The second was asking for money afterwards and the user could use any legal payment method available.  He said the Port Tunnel gave you the option of doing a U-turn before you entered the tunnel so they could choose their payment method (cash/tag - no cards).  But... in a restuarant, you eat the meal first and pay after the meal.  So the customer can pay with any legal tender.

As an aside, I once tried to report a runner to the Guards but the Guard said the offence only happens at the end (after) of the taxi ride when the person doesn't pay.

My conclusions based on my limited brain power reckons:
- We can only refuse a fare on very limited grounds (paying cash is not one of them)
- The passenger can say nothing and, after the journey is over, insist on paying with legal tender i.e., cash.

What do you armchair lawyers thinks?




* Original question:
Quote
The eastlink and port tunnel have stopped taking card payment and banknotes for the tolls.
If you drive along the toll road, have you not raised a debt? which can be discharged by legal tender?
there is a way to turn aroud at the eastlink, but not at the port tunnel toll.

It can't be legal for a state authoity or city council to refuse legal tender, can it?
especially when they have the ability to introduce bylaws to deal with the present situation, and the wherewithall to provide staff the ppe to deal with handling cards and cash


** mdebets full reply:
Quote from: mdebets
That's only true for vendors where you pay prior to receiving goods or services, not if you pay after the fact. In the later case, you have a debt, in which case the vendor has to accept legal tender.
A supermarket for example could make you pay in Monopoly money if they wanted to, but a restaurant on the other hand must allow you to pay with legal tender, as you have already consumed your meal and have a debt to pay to the restaurant.
I don't know, what you technically pay for if you drive through the port tunnel. Paying for driving through has most likely accured a debt, in which case they have to accept cash, if you only pay for crossing the barrier (and they give you an opportunity to turn around and drive back through the tunnel again without having to pay) they can attach whatever conditions they want.
There might also be a law that allows the state in cases of emergency to suspend the legal cash rules, but I don't know if that exists.


Offline dalymount

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3886
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2020, 08:21:53 PM »
Well I have not even read the posts on this ,just the headline and I totally agree that it is illegal to insist on card payment.in the very same way as it is illegal for the NTA to insist that we must take card payment

Offline Shallowhal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8573
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2020, 09:29:50 PM »
Don't worry Dalyer...the NTA will continue as they are,they'll probably still continue with the fare increase and insist on drivers paying for it.....i bet we haven't even had a mention in any meeting that might have taken place.

Offline dalymount

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3886
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2020, 09:34:08 PM »
Only thing they are interested in is screwing us for as much as they can get out of us.we are only there to subsidise our competitors ie Dublin bus

Offline dalymount

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3886
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2020, 09:38:58 PM »
The NTA dont seem to appreciate the fact that there are drivers out there ,particularly older drivers who do not like change and find using CC facilities a challenge.some have no knowledge,or interest in using this new way of charging,and I think it is grossly unfair of the NTA, to insist that they should have to offer such facilities

Offline silverbullet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9486
  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2020, 11:08:45 PM »
The NTA dont seem to appreciate the fact that there are drivers out there ,particularly older drivers who do not like change and find using CC facilities a challenge.some have no knowledge,or interest in using this new way of charging,and I think it is grossly unfair of the NTA, to insist that they should have to offer such facilities
Change is good

Most passengers now expect it!

Offline dalymount

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3886
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2020, 08:18:35 AM »
I actually dont know anyone who likes change,particularly older people

Offline Rat Catcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14986
  • Karma: +34/-65535
  • Part Time Amateur Scum
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2020, 08:51:25 AM »
Interestingly (or not) Cash handling isn't specifically listed as a "danger" on the HSE site - all the other "obvious" one's are - maybe cocaine kills the virus?

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/protect-yourself.html

You should wash your hands:

after coughing or sneezing

before and after eating

before and after preparing food

if you were in contact with someone who has a fever or respiratory symptoms (cough, shortness of breath, difficulty breathing)

before and after being on public transport or in a crowd (especially an indoor crowd)

when you arrive and leave buildings including your home or anyone else's home

if you have handled animals or animal waste

before having a cigarette or vaping

if your hands are dirty

after toilet use

Offline The Liffey Lip

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7036
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2020, 09:41:22 AM »
Smoking might actually be a help in lining the lungs from this shite...some intellectual in America suggested Vaping might've started this.....then again, they have hotels for dogs and cats....

Offline Rat Catcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14986
  • Karma: +34/-65535
  • Part Time Amateur Scum
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2020, 09:45:56 AM »
A new disease started by a new consumption habit... certainly not beyond the realms of possibility. Are there any statistics on differing rates of infection between vapers and non-vapers?

Offline The Liffey Lip

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7036
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2020, 09:48:51 AM »
I'd say it was some guy working for Philip Morris who circulated the disinfo....probably a graduate from Stuyvesant University, KKKville, Kentucky.

Offline Rat Catcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14986
  • Karma: +34/-65535
  • Part Time Amateur Scum
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2020, 09:52:02 AM »
Maybe but it could obviously spread like wildfire through e-liquid. All it would take is one cough from a factory worker, I guess... particularly as there's little or no regulatory input to production and sale.

Offline Rat Catcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14986
  • Karma: +34/-65535
  • Part Time Amateur Scum
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2020, 09:53:28 AM »
BTW... I was vaping as I typed that!

Offline The Liffey Lip

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7036
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2020, 09:55:05 AM »
Do you still like a small Whiskey?...well, stick up....distilleries have been commissioned to focus on sanitiser. Most Irish whiskey is exported and in transit....the stuff fermenting in the barrels currently will fetch a pretty penny when "ready".

Offline The Liffey Lip

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7036
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Insisting on card payment may not be legal (says the internet)
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2020, 09:58:21 AM »
Stock up, I meant. This tablet will have me declared semi-literate by the coming Comintern.

 


Show Unread Posts