card acceptance

[vandriver]

I had 2 jobs to Powerscourt waterfall yesterday.No signal whatsoever ,so I got cash upfront for both.

[Horse]

Is it certain networks that could have blindspots? Like meteror works here but o2 doesn't? If so and the pax reassure you that there will be a signal but then there isn't, couldn't they hotspot their connection to your phone if theirs works but yours doesn't? There's no way in hell I'd drive off unpaid because of no Internet connection.   Where's there's a will and all that.

[Rat Catcher]

I got an interim response from NTA, as follows:

Case Reference: CA129715

Dear Mr O'Connell

Thank you for contacting the NTA (National Transport Authority). We refer to your recent correspondence received on 22nd July 2022.

We will examine the information provided and will contact you regarding the outcome in due course.

If you have any further questions please contact our Information Line on 0818 064 000.

Yours Sincerely

National Transport Authority

[Rat Catcher]

As it happenss, I have many questions... including the deposit issue touched on by Watty and if one needs a DO licence and/or a seat on TAC to apply "technology" fees and what might reasonably constitute use of or access to "technology"...

However, I'll wait for a substantive response to the first question first.

[Bob Shillin]

As it happenss, I have many questions... including the deposit issue touched on by Watty and if one needs a DO licence and/or a seat on TAC to apply "technology" fees and what might reasonably constitute use of or access to "technology"...

However, I'll wait for a substantive response to the first question first.

My breath , and typing finger are already bated for the follow up.

[watty]

With reference to Guidelines for the Acceptance of Cashless Payments in Taxis (June 2022) and S.I. No. 294 of 2022 I would be obliged if you could clarify the following:

Should technological failures prevent the on-demand processing of a card presented for payment of a fare and the passenger, perhaps unusually, declines any discussion of an amicable solution (as suggested within Guidelines for the Acceptance of Cashless Payments in Taxis, June 2022) and, in doing so, advises the driver that he (the driver) is legally obliged to accept the card payment (Part 1, Section 4, Subsection(b), S.I. No, 294 of 2022) and that he (the driver) is legally barred from recording any personal details (including but not limited to name, address, (digital) imagery, etc) relevant to said client (Part 1, Section 5, S.I. No, 294 of 2022), does the driver retain any legal entitlement to be paid and, if so, how can such a debt be enforced. In particular, would a driver presented with such a scenario be within his rights to summon An Garda Siochana and forcibly detain the client pending the arrival of a member of said force?

Regards,

Stephen O'Connell

You might not be able to take their name and address while processing the card because the only data you need at that point is on the card.  But if it fails, you'd be taking the name and address for a different reason and that would probably be legal?

Can't see them answering that bolded question.  Or if they do, it'll be to trust our dedicated hardworking Gardai to sort things out.  They're the only crowd legally allowed to use violence in this Republic.  So much for equality 

[Belker]

...... it'll be to trust our dedicated hardworking Gardai to sort things out.  They're the only crowd legally allowed to use violence in this Republic.  So much for equality 

I think the knackers are legally allowed to use violence also ??
Did ya ever see a knacker arrested fer assault ?

[silverbullet]

I had 2 jobs to Powerscourt waterfall yesterday.No signal whatsoever ,so I got cash upfront for both.

Did you get paid on the drip?

[TheDevilHimself]

I had 2 jobs to Powerscourt waterfall yesterday.No signal whatsoever ,so I got cash upfront for both.

I  do job to there all the time . I always get paid  !

[watty]

Yeah, but do you get paid by card or cash?

[silverbullet]

Going to see a waterfall during a drought, some people sheesh!!

[Rat Catcher]

I got a reply (as below) that doesn't really answer the question. Maybe it's more a matter for the Dept or the Attorney General but I'll follow up with NTA for now and see what, if anything, transpires.

Response received:

Case Reference: CA129715

Dear Mr. O'Connell

Thank you for contacting the National Transport Authority (NTA). We refer to your recent correspondence received on 22nd July 2022.

The NTA compliance team will, as always, exercise discretion and common sense in all complaints investigations.

If a passenger card payment problem occurs, such as insufficient funds or the card has expired, for example, drivers should treat the matter in the same way as when dealing with a passenger who finds themselves unable to pay the fare in cash at the end of a journey. A different card may work or the passenger may be able to pay cash for the fare calculated on the taximeter. The passenger may wish to be taken to a cashpoint to get cash to pay the fare or have a third party pay on their behalf. If a passenger refuses to pay and an amicable agreement cannot be found, drivers should consider involving the Garda Síochána. It is an offence under section 24 of the Taxi Regulation Act 2013 for a person who hires a taxi and, without reasonable excuse, does not pay the fare calculated in line the maximum fares order by a verified taximeter.

To assist with local connectivity blackspots, drivers should consider whether the cashless payment terminal chosen includes connectivity via combined connection types, i.e. Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and 2/3/4/5G mobile networks. Explain the situation to the passenger and a practical solution can usually be found. It is particularly useful to explain known issues to the passenger prior to the commencement of a journey.

If there is a significant internet or service supplier/payment processor outage preventing cashless payments for all businesses, drivers must explain this to intending passengers before they get into their taxi and have evidence of this outage to provide to the NTA’s compliance team in the event of a complaint being received. Any such outage is likely to be well publicised and known to passengers.

If you have any further questions, please contact our Information Line on 0818 064 000.

Yours Sincerely

National Transport Authority

[Rat Catcher]

Follow up query submitted by email:

Hi,

Thank you for your response.

Unfortunately I am still unclear on the legal position in the event of an unanticipated technological failure. I understand that a client presenting a card with insufficient funds is legally obliged to pay the fare, perhaps in legal tender. However, what I don’t understand is whether a client who tenders a card which he is certain holds sufficient funds to cover the debt in question has any legal obligation to discharge said debt using some alternative methodology in the event of an unforeseen inability (on the part of the driver) to process the card tendered. In essence, I guess I’m wondering whether the driver’s unforeseen inability to process the payment could be relied upon as “reasonable excuse” to refuse payment utilising any alternative methodology.

Your attention to the above is very much appreciated and I look forward to your response.

Regards,

Stephen O’Connell.

[watty]

It is an offence under section 24 of the Taxi Regulation Act 2013 for a person who hires a taxi and, without reasonable excuse, does not pay the fare calculated in line the maximum fares order by a verified taximeter.

Yours Sincerely

National Transport Authority

I had a runner before and the Guard tried to fob me off to another Garda station by saying the offence only occurs at the end of the journey if he doesn't pay.  So, in your example, the customer could get into the taxi with his shiny Visa card and knowing he had money on it would be perfectly legal.  He wouldn't be potentially breaking the law until the end of the journey.  So explaining/asking about the internet connection at the start of the journey doesn't solve any problems.



Cash v. Card:
Something like this cropped up on Boards awhile back about shops being 'card only' and not taking cash.  The message I took from the more sensible answers was that if the shop had a sign at the door or on the menu BEFORE you bought/ordered something, then "card only" was valid because the customer knowing this in advance could always take their business elsewhere.

Of course the problem for us is that the NTA has ordered to take cash and card.

[Rat Catcher]

Have to say, I never came across the "without reasonable excuse" bit attached to the legal obligation to pay. I've probably answered my own question without realising i.e. a driver not being able to take the payment through means he is legally obliged to provide presumably gives rise to a reasonable excuse not to pay... but I think I'll try to get NTA, the Dept or the AGs office to tell me that in their words.