Homemade Water

[john m]

Talking to my accountant this week and the subject of expenditure came up .The water in Clondalkin is just short of Toxic .We use to get our water from Leixlip and it was fairly good but now we get it from some open sewer somewhere .The smell of Chlorine off the water reminds me of going to Tara Street Baths with the Youth Club .We were spending about 15 euro a week on bottled water .He suggested an In line filter to be fitted to the cold water supply but there are none available in any of the Plumbing Providers so Her what Rules the Roost bought a filter Jug makes a huge difference to the quality of the drinking water .

[silverbullet]

Talking to my accountant this week and the subject of expenditure came up .The water in Clondalkin is just short of Toxic .We use to get our water from Leixlip and it was fairly good but now we get it from some open sewer somewhere .The smell of Chlorine off the water reminds me of going to Tara Street Baths with the Youth Club .We were spending about 15 euro a week on bottled water .He suggested an In line filter to be fitted to the cold water supply but there are none available in any of the Plumbing Providers so Her what Rules the Roost bought a filter Jug makes a huge difference to the quality of the drinking water .

I know. Does it also filter the fluoride,  which is the chlorine smell?

[Shallowhal]

Talking to your accountant about the quality of drinking water in Clondalkin?.....that's gonna cost ye!!

[Rat Catcher]

Pfff, I thought we were going to discuss distilling uisce beatha... but I guess good quality drinking water is a prerequisite.

Not sure why your plumbing providers don't have what you're looking for. Maybe lockdown has us all scratching around for DIY projects, having painted every fucking thing that doesn't move. Anywaysanall water filtration got hold of my OCD a while back. To drag a short story out as much as reasonably possible, it all started when I decided to fit TRVs to all my radiators except the one in the hall that looks after the room stat. As I had to drain the entire heating system I toyed with the idea of adding a magnetic filter and therein commenced levels of research commensurate with production of a detailed thesis.

Magnetic filters will generally be fitted with all new heating systems these days and in the UK plumbers will justify it with "building regs mate". It's actually only in building regs for combi boilers as they constantly draw "fresh" water and what I concluded are the more learned plumbers suggested they're pointless on a sealed system (as mine is) as it only draws fresh water when filled and is better served by adding a bottle of inhibitor at that juncture. However, others argue that they are useful on sealed systems suggesting that any they have fitted invariably collect considerable sludge/waste/black stuff/whatever within a couple of weeks of installation, particularly on poorly maintained systems. I flush mine every 2-3 years so I guess it's pretty well maintained. Anywaysanall, I haven't ruled out fitting one in the future, maybe at the next flush.

From there I found myself looking at electrolytic filters - at least one plumber suggested they're a better job than magnetic and can be fitted to either a boiler (combi) or the whole house. They're supposed to tackle limescale but they don't soften hard water, they just alter the molecular structure of the water to prevent scaling. Now, I've never had a problem with limescale but I decided to check on the uisce éireann website and found that my water is actually the hardest water known to man, in fact I daresay it'd survive 28 rounds with the best of the best of MTKs fighters. Now we go back to "building regs mate"... Part L of the UK building regs recommends (not requires) an electrolytic or similar filter where hardness is measured at a level well below the level specified for my supply... so I decided I need this part L compliant one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B077ZNDP6Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Next, I got to thinking about drinking water and the amount we buy and An Taoiseach's puppy dole cuts anall. Long long long long story short I narrowed it down to needing this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01A5LSEGK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

with this cartridge (5 pack):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XXKDNXR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Then I thought there no point to installing all this stuff and not knowing if it's any good so I ordered two of these test kits, I think you get 2 tests per kit - cheap, maybe nasty!

https://www.itseurope.co.uk/collections/all-its-europe-products/products/safe-tap-check-9-way-water-test-kit

I've fitted all the filters but I haven't received the test kit yet. When I do I'll compare the tap water pre-filter and post-filter and compare both to bottled water... and I'll post the results here. I can't readily draw water from before the electrolytic filter but I don't think there's any value to be gained from such a comparison as it doesn't soften the water as such. That's just a case of trusting that it does what it's supposed to do I guess, probably relying on the fact that it is part L compliant.

On the practical side any youngsters considering DIY pliumbing can benefit from my OCD propelled experience. UK compression fittings are for 22mm (external diameter) and 15mm (external diameter) pipe whereas our pipes are 3/4 inch and 1/2 inch (both nominal based on traditional material internal diameters). A 3/4 inch pipe has an external diameter of c. 21mm and a 1/2 inch pipe has an external diameter of 14.7mm. In my experience, 15mm fittings are readily interchangeable with 1/2 inch. 22mm fittings will reliably work on the low pressure side of a domestic house i.e. for water that's come through the attic tank (n/a if you have a combi boiler) but will give trouble on the supply (mains pressure) side. The solution, however, is pretty simple - use a 3/4 or 21mm nut and olive. Those with extreme OCD will probably have noticed that valves sold in Irish hardware stores are often stamped 22mm but on close inspection you will notice the nuts are stamped either IR 3/4 or 21mm. The nut is at least as important as the olive, don't believe anyone who tells you to just use a 3/4 olive... speculate the extra €0.80 on the nut... or you'll be driven nuts with drips! Another quick point, PTFE tape isn't needed on compression fittings but if you must use it (admittedly I find I must) don't put it on the threads, it goes around the olive. Of course, on a threaded (non compression i.e. no olive) fitting it (or preferably thread sealing chord) is required on the threads but on a compression fitting it will only serve to hamper correct tightening of the fitting.

As for chemical pastes, I wouldn't put them on drinking water even if they say they're suitable for potable water, especially when the objective is to improve the water quality. Hemp is an absolute NO - in capital letters. With or without potable paste it's a germ magnet and is banned under UK regs even for bathing water hence the development of thread sealing chord.

[Shallowhal]

I have a MagnaClean filter fitted to the heating system,got it done when we got a new boiler fitted a few years ago,regardless of it being a sealed system,the shit from the inside of the radiators,the plumber left me a couple of bottles of inhibitor, i pour an amount into the MagnaClean unit prior to refitting the magnet.

[Rat Catcher]

Yeah, it is standard practice to fit them to new systems these days. My obsessive research suggests that stems from being required for combi boilers under UK building regs. I have no idea what Irish regs specify but I think they generally (but not always e.g. hemp on HW cylinders is still common practice here) follow the UK ones. I'll probably fit one myself (sealed system) next time I flush it and see what it collects. Have you cleaned yours and noticed much dirt in it? I think Adey is the make I concluded has the best reviews.

[Rat Catcher]

^ Adey Magnaclean ... probably what's on yours:

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/adey-cp1-03-00022-01-2-magnetic-filtration-22mm/49961

Cheaper from Amazon UK though!

[Shallowhal]

That's the one,
We need to change our hot water tank for a proper insulated unit...a bigger one as we got the heating controls upgrade that includes seperate heating and water zones.

[Rat Catcher]

Water's heavy! Make sure the floor will take the additional weight and/or/maybe spread the load with a bit of ply wood. If you're doing it yourself make sure the old one is well drained before trying to lift and lift from the bottom. Don't use any fittings as lifting handles, even with relatively little water in the cylinder they'll tear straight off the cylinder. I'd strongly advise not using or letting your plumber use hemp. I'd even go as far as to lend you a roll of thread sealing chord! And don't forget you'll get at least €30 for the scrap cylinder from any good scrap yard!

[Shallowhal]

Won't be doing it myself as the heating system i wouldn't be comfortable messing with.
Never thought of the old cylinder being worth a few bob.....don't actually know any scrap dealers in the area.

[Rat Catcher]

Shame my memory isn't what it used to be - I sold Mrs. Catcher's old car and a 30" copper cylinder to a scrap dealer a couple of years ago, got €125 for the car and €30 for the cylinder, collected which I was happy with... the last time I got the council to collect a car they charged me, €150 I think! Pff, I only shredded that car's paperwork a few weeks back, the scrap dealer would have been on the certificate of destruction or whatever it's called. I can narrow it down to a man with a Cavan or Monaghan accent! ... or you could try this crowd:

https://www.stmargaretsrecycling.ie/Non-Ferrous-Metals.php

Might have been them for all I can remember!

[Octavia1]

Talking to my accountant this week and the subject of expenditure came up .The water in Clondalkin is just short of Toxic .We use to get our water from Leixlip and it was fairly good but now we get it from some open sewer somewhere .The smell of Chlorine off the water reminds me of going to Tara Street Baths with the Youth Club .We were spending about 15 euro a week on bottled water .He suggested an In line filter to be fitted to the cold water supply but there are none available in any of the Plumbing Providers so Her what Rules the Roost bought a filter Jug makes a huge difference to the quality of the drinking water .

Heers wat I do johnny to test the water comin into me gaff .....notice I've 3 cardinal tetra....very sensitive to water quality....antin other than than pure water comin in an they snuff it straight away ....yull notice shrimp in ther too ...any metals in the water they snuff it straight away too aswell .....
For the price of bout 100 euro I have me water monitor...
Call me ocd but I dont trust the cnuts .....
 Them fish is 4 yers old btw ...In human terms they in ther 90s ....yu cant be too careful wen dealin wit or gambling with trusting Irish government departments......
Get yurself an aquarium

[Octavia1]

The water comin from lexilip is piss .....btw contaminated by irresponsible farming ....if ya need a cup of tea ...buy bottled ....
Dont be drinking any that until yu test it yurself....
Very simple ....a small aquarium in yur gaff .....problem eliminated

[Rat Catcher]

Just wondering Hal, have you thought through your need for a larger HW cylinder? To backtrack a little first, I don't doubt that fitting it would be well within your capabilities, you've probably done far more complicated jobs on motor cars and you probably acquired sufficient patience and attention to detail through your carpentry.

However, let's consider what you want to achieve in conjunction with how the heating controls work. Your zone control is a motorised valve controlled by a timer/switch/programmer in conjunction with a cylinder stat. The cylinder stat is important, that's what tells the boiler that the water is hot enough so the boiler turns off regardless of the fact that the programmer may still be on... if the water in the cylinder cools sufficiently to require further heating while the programmer is still on the stat will switch the boiler back on. Obviously, insulating the cylinder keeps the heat in so reduces the necessity for the boiler to run, saving you money and protecting the environment. A bigger cylinder, on the other hand, will take longer to heat. The real question is, do you need all that hot water given that I think you said you have an electric shower that only draws cold water. If that's the primary shower used in your gaff - and you intend to keep it that way - I don't get why you'd need to buy and store more hot water.

That said, if you do get the bigger cylinder you should probably consider replacing the electric shower with a shower pump (1.5 bar is perfectly sufficient) on the regular pipework. That takes me to another pet hate of mine, thermostatic bar type shower valves! They're by far the most popular shower controls these days, in fact to the extent that it's actually difficult to source a straightforward single lever mixing valve. Since my 2 bar pump packed in I've become an eco warrior, seeking to save water and the planet rather than unnecessarily pumping it about the place at high pressure... hence I installed a 1.5 bar shower pump for the ensuite and a lever valve (with no pump) in the first floor bathroom. The lever valve beats the thermostatic bar type hands down when it comes to saving the planet for a couple of simple reasons... first, it's easy to knock off while you soap yourself i.e. it comes back without running scalding hot or freezing cold for a few seconds as thermostatic bars invariably do and second, there's less bits in it to restrict water flow and give trouble.

[Shallowhal]

You've pointed out the reason for wanting a bigger cylinder,we'd like to do away with the Triton T90 in the ensuite,i spoke to the plumber when we were getting the controls upgrade,he said we could fit two showers(ensuite,family bathroom) rather than have the T90 and the tap fed shower.